My route to get to the music business was from law, and I had no idea that I would be just living a life in the music industry.

I came from really no money, and mainly throughout school had to achieve a certain average in order to keep my scholarships, and I went to a great law firm after Harvard Law School, and by coincidence, this law firm represented CBS, a division of which was Columbia Records, and I was there just maybe two or three years when I was approached to become Assistant General Counsel of Columbia Records with the guarantee that in one year, I would become General Counsel for Columbia Records.

So to me, I had no major clients, I knew nobody who really had money, and so the opportunity was very attractive to me.

I was the Chief Lawyer for about a five-year period of time.

I plunged into it knowing nothing about music, so I really from the contractual stage to the, we were defending a lawsuit, where the Columbia Record Club was being accused by the FTC of being a monopoly, so I was interviewing dealers, and rack jobbers, and artists, and managers, and I just worked really with a tremendous work ethic, really begotten from the public school system of New York, because the idea and the work ethic was established, and I'm so grateful to that elementary and high school system which really formed me like nothing else did.

And one day, there was a meeting with Goddard Lieberson, who was the President of Columbia Records, and he asked me to come into his office, and he said, "You know, you've been working on acquisitions.

"You've been working on the grounds of that word 'synergy' "to buy Fender Musical Instruments, the Fender guitar, "the Leslie Speaker, the Steinway piano."

And he said, "You know, I'm being elevated "to a group Chairman, and I have to make division heads."

And so he asked me, "Would you like to be Head "of the musical instrument group?"

And I was making $25,000 at the time, and he was offering a tripling of my salary to $75,000, and I said, "Well ..." I mean that was quite attractive.

"Is there a catch anywhere?"

And he said, "Well, the only catch "is that you'd have to move to California, "whether you lived in Santa Ana, "or whether you lived in Los Angeles", that's in effect where the main headquarters for Fender was on the West Coast.

And that would be a problem for me, but I said, "Look, I've got to weigh this.

"Can I have overnight to weigh all of the factors?"

I was prepared to turn it down, because I had two children, and it was very difficult, although I had custody of them, it would become very difficult to share them with my ex-wife.

And so I came into the office the next morning, and there was a buzzer as soon as I arrived, "Mr.

Lieberson would like to see you."

And so I walked into his office, and he said, "Clive, I've got to tell you that Norman Adler", the Executive Vice President at the time of Columbia, "he said he really wants to move to the West Coast, "and he really would like "the musical instrument division group, "along with creative play things as part of that group, "so I'm gonna make you Head of Columbia Records instead."

And you know, I was nonplussed, I was thrilled, it's not that I knew of this bent, I didn't know how I would survive in the musical wars, that jungle warfare, that competitive jungle warfare that exists at among record companies.

But I was thrilled, because that's what I had been working for as an attorney, and I felt I knew more of the business.

Never knew I had ears, never knew that I could hear a hit record, never knew that I could discover an artist, but this is one of the lucky breaks that occur in life, you've got to be ready.

It's one of the breaks that occur in life.

It turns out to be lucky if you're ready for it.

And so I said yes.

Columbia Records, at that time, in 1965 was preeminent in the worlds of classical music.

They had the New York Philharmonic, the Cleveland Orchestra, the Philadelphia Orchestra, that meant Eugene Normandy, Leonard Bernstein, and George Szell.

They had Vladimir Horowitz, and Isaac Stern, and Glenn Gould, a major classical artist.

They were preeminent in the world of Broadway, because Goddard Lieberson was preeminent in both the worlds of classical music and in Broadway.

They had "My Fair Lady" and "Camelot" and "West Side Story" and "Sound of Music," so they were preeminent in Broadway, and from that preeminence, they signed a young female artist a few years before named Barbara Streisand who came out of the show, "I Can Get It For You, Wholesale", and they had a very strong middle of the road roster of artists, which consisted of Tony Bennett and Mitch Miller, the singalong who was a preeminent A&R person working for Columbia, but he became a household name, and figure would sing along with Mitch, and they had Andy Williams.

In the rock area, there was a duo who was about to break, but had not broken at that time named Simon and Garfunkel.

They had Bob Dylan who was far more important as a writer at that time, rather than as an artist, so his songs were being covered by The Byrds, and Peter, Paul and Mary, so that he was a very influential songwriter, but not yet the poet laureate.

He and Bruce Springsteen, I consider the poet laureates of music over the years.

But they were not that strong in rock and roll.

They had a few what we call at that time "rock and roll artists", and they were about in third place.

There was RCN Capital who were number one and number two, and they were about in third place.

A major, an important company with a major history, but as contemporary music was changing, they were a little slow in getting into what was gonna happen in rock, years later.

So what did I do when I first took over?

I watched.

I listened.

You don't become an instant expert.

So often people get a title, and they feel they've got to act on it.

I did not feel I had to act on it.

This was a successful company, certainly first in its field in many areas of music, but I knew music was changing.

And I learned a very good lesson that if you grew up with Andre Castellanos and Percy Faith and Tony Bennett and Andy Williams, it doesn't mean that you are gonna understand what was gonna happen in rock, God knows in years and years in the future in urban or hip hop music.

I was listening to what we call the "Top 40 stations" at the time, WMCA and WABC, but if you grew up in popular music, and good, "easy listening", what they call music, you don't listen to Top 40, you're specializing.

And so I knew music was changing.

I knew that Columbia had to change, as well.

They had to continue to grow with due respect to what they were strong in, but they clearly had to make a move in contemporary music.

I didn't know where it would come from.

And slowly, after a year, I made my first deal, and that was a label deal.

It was called Ode Records.

And the main person behind Ode Records was a man named Lou Adler, who was a very successful, bright, shrewd.

I always meant the Howard Hughes, the reclusive, mysterious, very influential, what he had done Johnny Rivers, he had done The Mamas and Papas, and he was both a song man, and a wonderful producer.

And so we made a deal, and I had a record, the first record that came out was by an artist called Scott McKenzie.

And it's not that he's known today, but he sang a song that became a classic of its time.

And that was "If you're going to San Francisco, be sure to wear flowers in your hair."

And that record exploded, and it was on its way to number one, when Lou called me, and he said, "You know, there's gonna be a festival in Monterey, "and it's called the Monterey Pop Festival.

"And I'm on the board, "and your friend Abe Summer is on the board, "and I think it would be great if we hung out.

"You come for a weekend, you'll certainly enjoy it, "there are gonna be major artists, "you've got Simon and Garfunkel, "and I think The Byrds were coming, "and we'll have a great time."

I had no idea there'd be new artists showcased.

I only knew that there was going to be, it's the first pop festival.

So I went, and I went with my normal New York clothes, and I remember I wore this tennis sweater over white slacks, and I went the first afternoon to the concert that they said they'd be showcasing some brand new artists.

And I was just shook in every way, because it was not just a music revolution that was taking place, but there was a social revolution.

This was Haight-Ashbury in its purest form.

This was long hair, and long, flowing dresses, and a communal spirit, and a belief in just the individual, but also the communal spirit and community in which that individual was to live.

So it was idealism in its purest form, and it was life-altering.

I had never realized what was going on in Haight-Ashbury.

Being in the New York City vertical urban jungle, I love New York, when I use the word "jungle," I don't mean, I meant melting pot.

I didn't mean it in a negative or pejorative way.

But I was unprepared for the flowers in your hair, literally what Scott McKenzie was singing about.

And I listened to music, the electrification of the guitar, all those amplifiers.

It was so different.

And one group, the group called The Electric Flag with Mike Bloomfield on guitar and Buddy Miles on drums.

I mean, it really raised the hair on your arms, and sent those proverbial tingles up your spine.

And then this group came on stage called Big Brother and the Holding Company, and its lead singer was Janis Joplin.

And I'd never heard of her, I'd never heard of the group, they come out on stage, and she was riveting.

She was hypnotic.

She was electrifying.

She was a white young soul singer, the likes of which I don't think anybody had ever seen before.

And you know, not wanting to sound cliche-like, but there are epiphanies that could happen in life that change you.

And this was an epiphany for me, because I was aware that life was changing, I was aware that socially, musically I was perhaps unsuspectingly witnessing and a part of a revolution to be.

And I knew for myself that my moment had come, and that I had to not defer, no longer watch or just listen, that I had to make a move on my own.

And so I did.

I met with Janis and the group, they were under contract to a small company called Mainstream Records, but they had not come out with any music.

We connected.

I met as well with The Electric Flag.

We connected.

And quietly, after that weekend, I signed and made every effort to end up signing, and buying the contract of Big Brother and the Holding Company for the sum of $200,000.

100,000, for all of 200 was gonna be advanced by Columbia, half of which the company would bear, half of which would be an advance against ultimate royalties if the group were successful.

And I signed The Electric Flag.

And then I was back just really a month or two months in New York when I was going down to the village gate, where this audition was taking place, some club in New York, historically known for jazz, and I see this group that I was prepared for, because of my stay at Monterey.

There were horns in this group, and there was tremendous musicality.

Some of the members came from a former group called The Blues Project.

Well, this was the birth of Blood, Sweat & Tears.

And so I signed Blood, Sweat & Tears.

And I then was on that mission, and I know that from a creative point of view, from a marketing point of view, from a hiring of new executives point of view, that I pointed myself, betting that a rock revolution was taking place, and that I really being the only head of a company I think in Monterey was in on it, so very quietly I signed a number of rock -- Excuse me.

I signed a number of rock artists, and waited about nine months to a year to release any album simultaneously.

And we came, and they all, one after another, started creating that stir.

The word "underground" was applicable to that era, where the word of mouth through underground, there was the nascent beginnings of FM radio that played rock, and got its audience.

And so in short order, whether it was Big Brother and the Holding Company, whether it was The Electric Flag or Blood, Sweat & Tears, and ultimately Santana and Chicago.

When I went to San Francisco, met with Bill Graham, and Brian Rohan and saw this group Santana, it began my lifelong relationship with Carlos Santana, and the group, really the old star, young group that he had at the time, which led to "Oya Como Va," and "Black Magic Woman," and "Evil Ways."

And so this was a golden period.

My shock that each and every one of them became successful gave me the confidence to say, "You know, "I might have an undiscovered talent of ears, "of identifying original talent."

And it just really went on to Boz Scaggs, and I put together Loggins and Messina, and we had Johnny Winter and Edgar Winter, and you know, Earth, Wind & Fire, which then moved in the urban area, so this was a golden era.

It was a golden era for the music industry, it was certainly a golden era for me.

David Geffen at the time was an agent, and he represented an artist who did perform at the Monterey Pop Festival, not that distinguishedly, but it struck home to me that although this at that time would not be her best performance, that as a writer and as a singer-songwriter, she was unique, and very, very special.

So when David Geffen called me and we met, it was about Laura Nyro.

And I was very receptive to his plan of getting Laura Nyro off her record company, I think it was Verve Records, and I was very interested in establishing a new creative home for Laura Nyro.

And so we made our first arrangement, and did our first deal, and I got to meet and know David Givan.

I remember distinctly that it was from David that I learned that there was a group called The Chicago Transit Authority that was very, very talented, somewhat in the vein of Blood, Sweat & Tears, but different with different kind of songwriting.

And so of course I auditioned the group, they were gonna shorten the name subsequently to Chicago, but there's no question that the origin of my being aware of the group Chicago really came from a tip from David, and I also remember that David and Sandy Gallin were the first ones that put me in touch with Mac Davis, a very strong songwriter, who would be emerging as a major television personality, and both he and Sandy arranged for me to audition Mac Davis, I remembered vividly at the Beverly Hills Hotel, and being so impressed with both his demeanor, but also his songwriting.

So that yes, along the way, although Laura Nyro was the central figure of our business dealing, there were definite props that I wanna hand out and mention and include.

So thank you, thank you, David for Chicago, as well to you and Sandy for Mac Davis.

My main competitor in this new world for me was Ahmet Ertegun.

It was a lot of mutual respect, but Ahmet through really his English contacts, because I couldn't sign anybody from England, my universe was only America.

Within Columbia Records, if an artist came from England, it was the purview of your English company, so Ahmet was getting big advantages when he was signing The Cream, and he was signing Clapton, and he was signing, ultimately, The Rolling Stones and Jagger, and I was dealing with the rock world in America, so that we would have different sides of cabanas at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

And when his artist, Jagger or Clapton, would come to Cabana Nine, everybody's eyes would turn here in this wonderful setting of Hollywood, when in previous years, there would be announced Greta Garbo or Howard Hughes or Elizabeth Taylor, you know, the glamorous ones, all of a sudden we were changing the face in the late '60s and early '70s of this incredible, mysterious mystique setting, where everybody, every phone call was announced over the loud speaker, and I would be getting Sly of The Family Stone, or I'd be getting, you know, artists that I signed, whether it be from Big Brother or from Johnny Winter or Edgar Winter or Boz Scaggs.

And so here, yeah, we were friendly competitors with mutual respect, and for the first time we had to get in the trading, a situation which I don't think has happened before, or since to my memory.

What was quite unique at the time was the formation of the group Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, because by that time, David had established his own very strong relationship with Ahmet Ertegun, and really was putting together the group for Ahmet on Atlantic, but he had to contend with the contractual rights that existed.

Two of the artists of Crosby, Stills and Nash were David Crosby and Graham Nash.

Graham Nash was a member of the Hollies and David Crosby was a member of The Byrds.

So how do you do this with the contractual rights?

And so often socially, when I would go out in the same way that young people, males that trade baseball cards, or grow up, you know, it was common to say, you know, "It would be fun.

"Would you trade?"

And I was having hits with a young female artist at the time, Melissa Manchester, and we had "Don't Cry Out Loud" and "Midnight Blue," and a number of hits would show that Melissa Manchester could be a combination songwriter, performer in the vein of Barbara Streisand.

Big voice, beautiful voice.

Would you trade Melissa Manchester for Leo Sayer who had "When I Need You" and the big hits, and "Someone Coming From London."

So the question is if you had someone hypothetically, would you trade this artist for the other artist at this stage?

It's a pastime.

It was a fun dinner conversation thing.

All of a sudden, this became a reality.

So who would I get for David Crosby of The Byrds?

A member of The Byrds, but not the leading light of The Byrds.

Roger McGuinn, formerly Jim McGuinn, was the leading light of The Byrds.

And Graham Nash of The Hollies, an Englishman who was a member of this wonderful group called The Hollies coming out of the UK, and so I was offered Poco.

There's no doubt that Ahmet got the better of the deal.

There's no doubt that David [Geffen] played a role, and that with our friendship, and with our relationship that had been established at that time that I was sympathetic to returning favors to David that he had extended to me.

And when I think back to 1968 was the first year of release of Big Brother and the Holding Company, and the Electric Flag, so that it wasn't that I was in the business 10 years, or 15 years, or even five years, it was very early in my career, and that trade made sense probably as best explained or advocated by David.

It turned out that we both benefited, because from Poco came one of its members, who came to me and said after one album that went gold between gold and platinum, and he said, "You know, I don't want to "really be an artist anymore.

"I really have been so affected "by our relationship that I really wanna "come to work with you in A&R.

"And I would like to be one of your producers, "one of your A&R men."

And I said, "Well, how could I afford you?

"You're a member of this big group, "and to be an A&R man, to be an artist is one thing, "whether you can discover artists is a total other thing."

And so he wrote up this budget, and I remember it so distinctly that he submitted to me a three-page budget as to how I could afford him, what he would be willing to take, what his expenses would be, and at the time, I was signing a singer-songwriter that would have been perfect for him.

And so I made the deal.

And this member of Poco came to work for me in A&R, and I put him in the studio with this new singer-songwriter that I signed, and after six months, he came to me, and he said, "You know, I believe so much in the songwriting "of this artist that you signed that I started embellishing "and writing with him, "and working with him in the recording process, "and now we are gonna be an artist together.

"I'll continue to work for you, "but I've got to be an artist."

And that was the formation of Loggins and Messina.

So the artist that I just told you about was Kenny Loggins, and the member of Poco was Jim Messina, and Loggins and Messina became an incredibly big selling platinum to multi-platinum artist.

So I did benefit from it.

And yes, Crosby, Stills, and Nash went on to become Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, and a wonderful artist, but at the same time, we did get Loggins and Messina, as well as some Poco albums that were quite beneficial.