>> PRODUCTION FUNDING FOR, "THE FARMING PROJECT," HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY THE RURAL DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATION, ASSISTING EMERGING RURAL BUSINESSES IN AGRICULTURE AND OTHER INDUSTRIES.

>> THERE IS NO STATE IN THIS NATION THAT IS MORE DEPENDENT ON DRYING AS A PERCENTAGE ITS OVERALL STATE PRODUCT.

NONE.

>> WE'VE HAD A HIGH STANDARD OF LIVING IN THIS COUNTRY FOR SO LONG THAT I THINK WE WILL HAVE TO BE SATISFIED WITH A LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING.

>> IS THERE ANY ONGOING RESEARCH IN THE STATE OF VERMONT ABOUT THE HEMP PLANT GOING ON WHICH IS NOW LEGALLY GROWN IN ENGLAND?

AND, IF NOT, I'M WONDENG WHAT PROCEDURE WE CAN DO TOET THE PROCESS BEGINNING.

>> I THINK THE FUTURE FOR AGRICULTURE IN VERMONT IS VERY GRIM UESS WE REALLY DO TEACH AGRICULTURE TO OUR CHILDREN ALL THE WAY THROUGH SCHOOLING, FROM THE KINDERGARTEN ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE UNIVERSITY, THAT IT'S INTEGRATED, FULLY INTEGRATED INTO OUR EDUCATION.

>> FROM THE SUDBURY TOWN HALL IN SUDBURY, VERMONT, VERMONT E.T.V.

PRENTS, "AOWN MEING ONHE FUTURE OF AGRICULTURE."

HERE IS MODERATOR RON POWERS.

>> WE ARE HERE IN THE GLORIOUS OLD TOWN MEETING HOUSE IN SUDBURY, VERMONT, A BUILDING THAT DATES TO 1803, A BUILDING THAT CONTAINS SEVERAL BEAUTIFUL MURALS OF TOWN LIFE IN VERMONT, WHICH YOU'LL SEE SHORTLY, AND WE'RE HERE TO BEGIN THE LAST OF OUR FOUR TOWN MEETINGS ON THE TOPIC OF FARMING IN VERMONT.

I'M RON POWERS.

NOW, IF YOU'VE BEEN WITH US IN PREVIOUS WEEKS, YOU'LL KNOW THAT WE'VE COVERED SUCH TOPICS AS RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, AND THE HUMAN FACE OF FARMING, AND MARKETS AND MARKETING, AND WE THINK THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE NOW IN THIS LAST SESSION TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE FUTURE OF FARMING, WHAT AGRICULTURE IN VERMONT WILL BE LIKE IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

WILL IT BE A BRAVE NEW WORLD OF COMPUTERIZED MACHINES TENDING TO CHEMICALIZE CROPLANDS AND MILKING PERFECT HERDS OF GENETICALLY ENHANCED CATTLE?

WILL IT BE A LANDSCAPE OF NO CROPLANDS AND NO FARMLANDS AT ALL, JUST SUBURBS AND SHOPPING CENTERS, OR WILL WE SOMEHOW FIND A WAY TO SUSTAIN OUR DELICATE BALANCE IN THIS STATE, DELICATE BALANCE BETWEEN HUMAN BEINGS AND THE GOOD LAND?

WELL, AS USUAL, WE HAVE ASSEMBLED AN EXPERT PANEL TO PROVIDE ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS, AND WE WILL FOLLOW THE USUAL RULES IN OUR TOWN MEETINGS.

I WILL BEGIN WITH A SERIES OF GENERAL QUESTIONS TO THE PANEL, WE'LL GET SOME COMMENTS AND WE'LL GET SOME DISCUSSION, WE HOPE, VERY FREE FLOWING, AND AS THE MEETING GOES ON WE HOPE TO HEAR FROM OUR VERY WELL-ATTENDED AUDIENCE TONIGHT, A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE, AND FARM AND WORK AROUND SUDBURY.

SO, WE'LL JOIN THAT DISCUSSION WITH COMMENTS, AND QUESTIONS AND ANECDOTES OF YOUR OWN ABOUT FARMING AND YOUR HOPES, AND FEARS AND EXPECTATIONS FOR THE FUTURE.

NOW, LET'S MEET OUR PANEL.

GEORGE DUNSMORE IS COMMISSIONER OF THE VERMONT DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND HE'S A FORMER DAIRY FARMER.

LEONARD GERMAIN IS AN AWARD WINNING DAIRY FARMER WHO IS NOW DIRECTOR OF SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE FOR SHELBURNE FARMS.

CLARK HINSDALE IS PRESIDENT OF THE VERMONT FARM BUREAU, AN ORGANIZATION REPRESENTING 4,200 MEMBERS.

DANIEL POWERS IS ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF FARM MANAGEMENT AT VERMONT TECHNICAL COLLEGE, AND DANIEL AND I HAVE DECIDED THAT THERE IS NO RELATION THAT WE KNOW OF.

JEANICHARDSON IS DIRECTOR OF THE ENVIRMENTAL PROGRAMS IN COMMUNITIES PROGRAM, AND A FACULTY MBER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT.

AND SHERRY RUSSELL IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE AGRICULTURAL PRODUCERS AND MARKETERS ASSOCIATION WHICH REPRESENTS A WIDE RANGE OF DIVERSIFIED VENTURES FROM RAISING BEEF TO TROUT AND BEES.

JEAN RICHARDSON, LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU.

WHY SHOULD WE CARE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF VERMONT?

WHY SHOULD A PERSON LIKE ME WHO WEARS COATS AND NECKTIES WORRY ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I CAN GO TO THE STORE AND I CAN BUY SOMETHING WRAPPED IN CELLOPHANE THAT SAYS "MEAT" ON IT, SOMETHING ELSE THAT SAYS "VEGETABLES" AND I CAN TAKE IT HOME AND COOK IT.

I FEEL PRETTY GOOD.

I'M NOT LOSING WEIGHT.

WHY SHOULD I BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE?

>> WELL, LET ME FIRST START BY TELLING YOU ONE THING ABOUT ME.

OBVIOUSLY FROM MY ACCENT I'M ORIGINLY FROM NORTHERN ENGLAND, AN AREA VERY SIMILAR TO VERMONT IN MANY WAYS, AN AREA WHICH UNDERWENT CHANGES ITS AGRICULTURE AND ITS LAND USE AND DEVELOPMENT A LONG TIME AGO, AND ALSO I WAS A FORMER SHEEP FARMER IN VERMONT BEFORE I REALIZED THERE WERE EASIER WAYS TO MAKE MOY TH IN FARMING, WHICH IS TOO BAD BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT AGRICULTURE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE STATE OF VERMONT.

WITHOUT AGRICULTURE AND WITHOUT MAINTAINING OPEN FARMLAND, WITHOUT MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF OUR CHILDREN GET EDUCATED, AND NOT JUST THE ONES THAT ARE GOING INTO FARMING BUT ALSO THOSE THAT ARE GOING INTO UNIVERSITIES, AND INTO MARKETING AND INTO ECONOMICS, EVERYONE SHOULD BE EDUCATED IN UNDERSTANDING AGRICULTURE.

>> AGRICULTURE IS HERE TO STAY, ISN'T IT?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS.

AND THAT'S THE KIND OF THING I'M REAL CONCERNED ABOUT.

I THINK THE FUTURE OF AGRICULTURE IN VERMONT IS VERY GRIM UNLESS WE REALLY DO TCH AGRICULTURE TO OUR CHIREN ALL THE WAY THROUGH SCHOOLING, FROM THE KDERGARTEN ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE UNIVERTY, THAT IT'S INTEGRATED, FULLY INTEGRATED IN OUR EDUCATION BECAUSE IT ISN'T.

WE TEND TO TREAT AGRICULTURE EVEN AS THOUGH IT WAS SEPARATE FROM ALL THE REST OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE STATE, AND REALLY IT'S PART OF OUR ECONOMIC BASIS, IT IS PART OF OUR LAND USE PLANNING, IT IS PART OF THE TOURISM AND LAND USE THAT HAVE MADE EUROPE SO SIGNIFICANT, THE SAME WAY HERE.

ONLY IF WE REALLY WORK AT HOW TO INTEGRATE IT INTO OUR OVERALL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ARE WE GOING TO SEE ANY AGRICULTURE HERE IN 5 OR 10 YEARS FROM NOW.

>> WE'LL BE COMING BACK TO YOU, JEAN RICHARDSON, FOR POINT-BY-POINT SUBSTANTIATION OF THAT RATHER GRIM THESIS.

BUT LET'S GO TO COMMISSIONER DUNSMORE NOW AND ASK HIM IS THE FUTURE ALL THAT GRIM, THE FUTURE OF FARMING IN VERMONT?

SHOULD WE BE WORRIED?

>> I THINK WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED, BUT I THINK THAT A VERY IMPORTANT THING THAT MAY HAVE ESCAPED US OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF DECADES IS APPROPRIATE EDUCATION FOR OUR CONSUMING POPULOUS.

>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT NOW EXACTLY?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE DON'T HAVE A BETTER INTEGRATED UNDERSTANDING IN OUR TOTAL SCHOOL CURRICULUM.

TODAY IT WOULD BE K THROUGH 12 OR K THROUGH A COLLEGE EDUCATION, AND EVEN BETTER PREPARATION FOR OUR TEACHERS THAT ARE GOING INTO THE CLASSROOM ABOUT THE MOST BASIC SUBSTANCE LIFE, FOOD.

AND IF WE DON'T IMPROVE THERE, THEN I THINK WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM.

>> CLARK HINSDALE, WHY SHOULD WOULD WE ROCKET SCIENTISTS CARE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF FARMING IN VERMONT?

IS IT A FAIR CONCERN THAT VERMONTERS DON'T CARE ENOUGH?

IT'S A CONCERN THAT I THINK I'VE HEARD BOTH FROM THE COMMISSIONER, FROM DR.

RICHARDSON.

>> I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S THE CASE.

I BELIEVE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CARING AND ACTION.

I DON'T THINK THEY UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OUR PROPERTY TAX SYSTEM AND THE FUTURE OF AGRICULTURE.

I THINK THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE COMPETITION FOR SCARCE QUALITY AGRICULTURAL LAND OF WHICH WE HAVE RELATIVELY LITTLE.

LESS THAN 10% OF OUR STATE IS PRIME AGRICULTURE LAND, AND THERE ARE MANY USES FOR THIS LAND, COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL AS WELL AS AGRICULTURE.

AND SO THEY DON'T ALSO UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP, FOR EXAMPLE IN THE DAIRY INDUSTRY, BETWEEN THOSE COWS GRAZING, AND THOSE RED BARNS AND THE MILK TRUCK LEAVING THE FARM AND UNDERSTAND WHAT AN ECONOMIC ENGINE THAT IS THAT DRIVES MUCH OF THE STATE, AND WHEN FARM GATE PRICES GO DOWN, THE WHOLE RURAL ECONOMY STARTSO GET A BLITE ACROSS IT.

AND PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND, FOR EXAMPLE -- YOU HAVEN'T ASKED ME FOR AN EXAMPLE YET, BUT I'LL GIVE YOU ONE.

>> GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE, IF YOU WOULD, MR.

HINSDALE.

>> LET'S TAKE DAIRY FARMING.

AND PEOPLE IN VERMONT DON'T KNOW THIS.

THERE IS NO STATE IN THE NATION THAT IS MORE DEPENDENT ON DAIRYING FOR A PERCENTAGE OF ITS AGRICULTURE, THERE IS NO STATE IN THIS NATION THAT IS MORE DEPENDENT ON DAIRYING AS A PERCENTAGE OF ITS OVERALL STATE PRODUCT.

NONE.

WE MAY BE 20TH NATIONWIDE IN PRODUCTION, BUT WE'RE NUMBER 1 IN DEPENDENCE ON THE DAIRY COW.

NOW, LET'S TAKE A TYPICAL SIZE DAIRY FARM WITH, LET'S JUST SAY, 50 OR 60 MILKERS, AND VISUALLY YOU COULD REPLACE THOSE 50 OR 60 MILK COWS WITH 50 OR 60 BEEF COWS, AND BEEF COWS ARE GREAT, DON'T GET ME WRONG, BUT IF THE AVERAGE BEEF COW PRODUCES A CALF THAT MAY BE WORTH $500 A YEAR GROSS PRODUCT TO THE ECONOMY, THE AVERAGE DAIRY COW PRODUCES 5 OR 6 TIMES THAT AMOUNT OF GROSS PRODUCT, AND THAT MONEY GOES BACK OUT INTO THE RURAL ECONOMY AND CIRCULATES.

SO FOR THE SAME SIZED FARM, A 50 COW BEEF FARM OR A 50 COW DAIRY FARM, THE 50 COW DAIRY FARM PRODUCES 5 TO 6 TIMES AS MUCH GROSS REVENUE FOR THE COMMUNITY AS THE BEEF FARM.

NOW, THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE COLOR OF THE COWS GRAZING ON THE HILLSIDE TO FILLING THE TAX COFFERS IN MONTPELIER, PROVIDING THE KIDS WITH AN EDUCATION AND HAVING A QUALITY OF LIFE ECONOMICALLY IN THE STATE.

>> EXCELLENT EXAMPLE.

AND I WANT TO FOCUS NOW FOR A MINUTE, IF WE CAN, ON THE DAIRY FARM, AND ITS SIZE AND ITS IMPORT, ITS INTEGRATION INTO THE STATE.

WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM A WOMAN WHO IS A DAIRY FARMER.

HER NAME IS DONNA HALL.

SHE AND HER HUSBAND HAVE COMBINED WHAT HAD BEEN A SINGLE FAMILY FARM OPERATION WITH THE OPERATIONS OF HER SONS, THEIR WIVES AND AT LEAST ONE NEIGHBOR TO PRODUCE A LARGER KIND OF OPERATION THAT PEOPLE IN VERMONT ARE NOW SAYING IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY FOR THE SURVIVAL OF THE DAIRY FARM, BUT SHE'S BEEN CRITICIZED FOR THAT.

LET'S HEAR WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY.

>> ONE OF THE STATEMENTS THAT HAS BEEN USED IS, "WELL, YOU'RE NOT A FAMILY FARM ANYMORE.

YOU'RE A BIG BUSINESS."

IT WAS A PRETTY GOOD-SIZED BUSINESS, I THOUGHT, WHEN WE WERE RUNNING 80 TO 90 MILK COWS.

I DID ALL THE BOOK WORK AND THAT WAS A GOOD-SIZED BUSINESS, BUT I GUESS THAT THIS IS A FAMILY FARM AND WE ALL HAVE A VERY ACTIVE PART IN IT AS A FAMILY.

AND IT JUST SEEMS THAT WE HAVE TO DO THIS BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE DAIRY BUSINESS IS GOING AS FAR AS THE MONEY, AND MAYBE WE WANT TOO MUCH FROM THE FARM, BUT WE WANT A DECENT STANDARD OF LIVING.

>> DR.

A HALL RIGHT?

DO DRY FARMERSAVE TOE BIGGER ANDETTER ORDER SURVIVE?

>> I THINK IN THE MAJORITY SHE'S PROBABLY RIGHT, THAT MORE AND MORE DAIRY FARMERS ARE CONSIDERING EXPANSION, GETTING BIGGER SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY NEED MORE MONEY TO KEEP THE BUSINESS GOING AND TO PROVIDE THEMSELVES WITH A REASONABLY DECENT LIVING.

THAT ISN'T TO SAY THAT THERE MIGHT NOT BE SOME OPERATIONS THAT MAY FIND ALTERNATIVES TO EXPANSION TO SATISFY THE SAME NDS, BUT BY AND LARGE I THI EXPANSION IS HERE TO STAY.

DAIRY FARMS ARE GETTING LARGER.

>> MR.

GERMAIN, YOU'VE SEEN THIS NOW FROM BOTH SIDES.

YOU HAVE BEEN A VERY SUCCESSFUL DAIRY FARMER, I THINK ON A FAMILY SCALE, AND NOW YOU ARE INVOLVED IN LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF RESEARCH AND SCIENTIFIC PROJECTIONS.

WHAT ABOUT DONNA HALL'S EXPERIENCE AND HER COMMENTS?

>> WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT, RON.

WHEN I WAS FARMING WE MILKED 40 TO 50 COWS, CLOSER TO 40 MOST OF THE TIME AND HAD A FINE LIVING.

WE WERE DIVERSIFIED, THOUGH.

WE HAD CHRISTMAS TREES, MAPLE, AND I THINK THIS IS ONE THING THAT THE STATE OF VERMONT HAS TO OFFER IS DIVERSIFICATION THIS WAY.

BUT IN LOOKING AT THE FUTURE, I HAVE TO AGREE WITH DONNA.

THEY'RE DOING A SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE PROJECT IN THAT AREA.

JUST LOOK TO SEE WHAT THAT LAND WOULD BE IF THEY HAD NOT DONE WHAT THEY DID.

THIS IS JUST ONE TOOL, IN MY OPINION, OF WAYS OF FARMING.

LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD, WE HAVE TO, I THINK, LOOK AT THE FUTURE GENERATION, HOW TO KEEP THEM INTERESTED, HOW THEY CAN GET INVOLVED IN FARMING, AND WHEN WE GET INTO THESE LARGE FARMS, WE'RE TALKING NOT ONLY LARGE ACREAGE, LARGE NUMBERS OF ANIMALS, BUT LARGE DOLLAR VOLUMES TO MAKE IT WORK.

AND, IN MY OPINION, I'M NOT JUST SURE WHERE THIS WILL LEVEL OUT.

MAYBE 150-COW FARM FOR 2 FAMILIES MIGHT BE AN IDEA.

THIS IS WHERE WE'RE LOOKING, AND WHAT I HEAR FROM OTHER PEOPLE, THAT MIGHT IT BE A NICE SIZED FARM FOR 2 FAMILIES.

IT CAN BE HANDLED WITH TWO BOTTOM LINES, ONE WAS ENOUGH INCOME AND THE OTHER IS QUALITY OF LIFE.

TOO OFTEN OUR FAERS ARE WORKING TOO HARD AND NOT GETTING OFF THE FARM AND GETTING INVOLVED IN COMMUNITY AFFAIRS AND THEIR FUTURE.

>> GOOD.

WE HAVE SOME MEMBERS OF THE FUTURE GENERATION WITH US RIGHT HERE IN THE FRONT ROW, AND I HOPE YOU GUYS WILL GIVE US SOME OF YOUR OWN FEEDBACK ON THESE ISSUES AS THE TALK GOESLONG, BUT RIGHT NOW, COMMISSIONER, I WANT THE STAY WITH THIS IDEA OF WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE DAIRY FARMER.

IN THE 1950S VERMONT HAD SOMETHING LIKE 10,000 DAIRY FARMS.

NOW WE'RE DOWN TO ABOUT 2,000 DAIRY FARMS.

WHERE WILL IT BOTTOM OUT?

>> WE'VE LOST A LITTLE OVER 1,000 IN THE LAST 10 OR 12 YEARS.

THE AMAZING THING IS THAT WE HAVE NOT SEEN OUR MILK PRODUCTION GO DOWN, IT BASICALLY HELD STEADY OR SLIGHTLY INCREASED.

THAT TELLS US THAT THERE'S BETTER MANAGEMENT ABILITIES OUT THERE, THERE'S BETTER TECHNOLOGIES AVAILABLE TO US, AND I FEEL THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE THAT TREND CONTINUE.

I DON'T THINK THAT SIZE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER IT'S FAMILY OR NOT.

>> SHERRY RUSSELL, YOU'RE VERY INVOLVED IN LOBBYING ON BEHALF OF VERMONT FARMERS, SPECIFICALLY AS THEY MARKET THEIR PRODUCTS.

I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU ON WHAT YOU THINK THE SCOPE AND THE VIABILITY OF THE DAIRY FARM IS GOING TO BE IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

>> WELL, AS FAR AS DAIRY FARMING, I THINK THAT THERE WILL BE A FUTURE FOR ALL SIZE OF FARMS.

I AGREE WITH THE COMMISSIONER ON THAT.

THAT IF PEOPLE CAN MAKE ENOUGH MONEY PER HUNDRED WEIGHT WITH A SMALLER SIZED FARM, WHAT WE MIGHT CALL SMALL THESE DAYS MIGHT BE 50 OR 60 COWS, THEN I DON'T THINK THEY NECESSARILY WOULD WANT TO GET REALLY LARGE.

I THINK THAT THAT MILY-SIZED FARM RKS WE AS ALACE TO RAISE YOURAMILY.

I THINK THAT'S WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE FARM IS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE THERE WITH THEIR FAMILY; WHEREAS, WHEN YOU GET INTO A VERY LARGE SITUATION WITH 400 OR 500 ANIMALS, YOU ARE STARTING TO LOOK MORE LIKE A FACTORY OR AN INDUSTRY AND YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF EMPLOYEES COMING IN AND OUT, A LOT OF BIG EQUIPMENT.

IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT ATMOSPHERE, I THINK.

>> FAIR ASSESSMENT, MR.

GERMAIN?

FAIR ANALYSIS?

>> I DON'T FORESEE THE PRICE OF MILK INCREASING.

WE'VE HAD A HIGH STANDD OF LIVING IN THIS COUNTRY FOR SO LONG THAT I THINK THAT WE WILL HAVE TO BE SATISFIED WITH A LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING.

I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO LIVE POOR, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE DOLLAR DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT PRODUCING MILK DIFFERENTLY THAN WE HAVE IN THE PAST.

>> WHO DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY, "WE?"

HOW INCLUSIVE IS THIS WE?

>> EVERYONE.

>>ARMERS, NONFARMERS, CONSUMS?

>> YES.

YES.

I HAVE COME THROUGH DAIRYING AND THROUGH FARMING, I'VE SEEN AN INCREASED PRICE OF MILK, INCREASED PRODUCTION PER COW, INCREASED PRODUCTION PER FARM.

NOW I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT PRODUCING THAT PRODUCT FOR LESS MONEY.

>> ONE OF THE TOPICS WE HEAR A LOT, AND I KNOW THAT EACH OF YOU HAS A STRONG OPINION ON ONE SIDE OR ANOTHER OF THIS IS DIVERSIFICATION.

VERMONT FARMS ARE GOING TO SURVIVE PARTLY AS THEY DIVERSIFY.

WE'RE GOING TO HEAR NOW FROM SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY WHO'S CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE AGRICULTURE COMMITTEE.

PATRICK LEAHY IS GOING TO TELL US THAT FARMS IN VERMONT HAVE ALWAYS CHANGED, THEY HAVE NEVER REMAINED STATIC, AND THAT DIVERSIFICATION IS REALLY A PART OF OUR HISTORY AS WELL AS OUR FUTURE.

LET'S HEAR FROM SENATOR LEAHY.

>> I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO VERMONT AGRICULTURE IS THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE NEW GENERATION OF THOSE IN AGRICULTURE UNDERSTAND THAT IT HAS TO CHANGE IF IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO EXIST.

THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER STATES, ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE NORTHEAST WHERE PEOPLE FORGOT THAT AGRICULTURE CHANGES JUST AS EVERYTHING ELSE AND SAW IT DISAPPEAR.

WE'RE STANDING AT THE SCRIBNER'S FARM IN MIDDLESEX, FOR EXAMPLE, AN IDEA WHERE THEY'VE USED A VEGETABLE GARDEN, THEY'RE SELLING FLOWERS AND THEY'RE DOING VALUE-ADDED PRODUCTS, AND IT'S A TYPE OF FARMING, IT MAINTAINS OPEN LAND, IT'S A VIABLE AGRICULTURAL USE.

IT'S NO LONGER JUST SIMPLY HAVING A CERTAIN NUMBER OF COWS, YOU MILK THE COWS AND YOU SELL THE PRODUCT TO A CREAMERY.

IT'S VALUE ADDED, IT'S DIVERSIFICATION AND IT'S AGGRESSIVE SELLING.

>> SHERRY RUSSELL, DIVERSIFICATION IS YOUR LIFE.

IS THE SENATOR ONTO SOMETHING?

>> YES, I BELIEVE SO.

I THINK THERE'S LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES IN VERMONT THAT ARE UNEXPLORED AT THIS POINT.

THEY'RE IN THEIR INFANCY, REALLY.

EARLIER TODAY I STOPPED AND VISITED WITH SOME TROUT FARMERS IN MONKTON, AND THOSE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO EXPAND BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MEET THE DEMAND FOR THEIR PRODUCT, WHICH IS TROUT, AND THEY'RE JUST AT THE VERY, VERY SMALL PART OF WHAT'S THERE FOR DEMAND.

I MEAN, THERE'S SO MUCH THEY COULD BE DOING WITH TROUT BECAUSE JUST THINK OF THE FUTURE FOR THAT AS SEAFOOD BECOMES LESS AVAILABLE AND MORE EXPENSIVE, AND THEY'RE JUST BARELY ABLE TO SUPPLY THE PEOPLE THAT WANT THE TROUT FOR STOCKING PONDS.

>> MR.

HINSDALE, DIVERSIFICATION, WILL IT SOLVE ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS?

>> IT WON'T SOLVE ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS, BUT WHAT IT WILL DO IS IT WILL PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR SOME OF THE SMALLER FARMS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN JOINED, FOR EXAMPLE, TO THE NEIGHBORING DAIRY FARM.

WHEN I WAS GROWING UP IN CHARLOTTE, VERMONT, JUST A DOZEN MILES OUTSIDE OF BURLINGTON, WE HAD ABOUT 40 DAIRY FARMS WHEN I WAS IN GRADE SCHOOL AND NOW WE'VE GOT ABOUT A DOZEN DAIRY FARMS, BUT MOST OF THE FARMS THAT WERE IN DAIRYING ARE STILL IN PRODUCTION.

WE HAVE A NEIGHBOR RIGHT NOW WHO IS MAKING MORE GROSS INCOME SELLING HAY TO FANCY HORSE STABLES IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY THAN HE WAS WHEN HE WAS MILKING COWS.

HE HAS MORE INCOME AND LESS EXPENSE, AND YOU CAN TELL WHAT THAT PROBABLY DOES TO HIS BOTTOM LINE.

AND WHEN YOU SEE THE BEAUTIFUL JOB OF IMPROVING THE BARNS, AND THE FENCES, AND THE HEDGEROWS AND THE CLEAN, WELL-KEPT APPEARANCE OF THE FARM WITH A FAMILY WHERE THEIR INCOME IS 100% FROM AGRICULTURE AND 0% FROM DAIRY, IT'S VERY HEARTENING.

WE HAVE ORGANIC TOMATOES BEING PRODUCED IN CHARLOTTE.

WE HAVE THE CHARLOTTE BERRY FARM, PICK YOUR OWN BLUEBERRIES, PICK YOUR OWN STRAWBERRIES.

WE HAVE 3 OR 4 ORCHARDS, AND EVERY ONE OF THESE DIVERSIFIED OPERATIONS HAS BEGUN SINCE I WAS IN GRADE SCHOOL.

SO THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE MARKET NICHE IN A PLACE LIKE CHARLOTTE WHERE YOU ARE JUST 10 OR 12 MILES AWAY FROM THE GREATEST POPULATION CENTER IN THE STATE OF VERMONT.

>> COMMISSIONER DUNSMORE, IS IT REALISTIC TO THINK THAT THE KIND OF DIVERSIFICATION WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT IN THESE LAST FEW MINUTES WILL SOME DAY BE A REPLACEMENT FOR DAIRY FARMING?

SHOULD IT BE?

IS IT A GOOD THING?

>> I THINK DIVERSIFICATION IS A VERY GOOD THING.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT WILL BE A REPLACEMENT FOR DAIRY FARMING, BUT I THINK IT WILL BE A CONTINUED SUPPLEMENT TO THE OVERALL AG ECONOMICS IN THIS STATE AND A GROWING PORTION OR A PERCENTAGE OF THAT.

WE'RE NOW WORKING WITHIN EXCESS OF 24 OR 26 DIFFERENT PRODUCT PROMOTION GROUPS, MARKETING GROUPS.

I THINK IT MUST BE SAID THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS MARKET DEVELOPMENT.

WITHOUT A MARKET, NOTHING ELSE WILL FLOURISH.

AND WE HAVE TO GIVE MORE ATTENTION TO MARKETING WHATEVER THE PRODUCT IS.

>> A LARGE PART OF DIVERSIFICATION DEPENDS ON THE KIND OF KNOWLEDGE, THE KIND OF INNOVATIONS, THE EXPERIMENTS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF OUR RESEARCH FACILITIES.

LEONARD GERMAIN, TAKE US INSIDE SHELBURNE FARMS FOR A FEW MINUTES AND GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT THE FERMENT IS, WHAT KIND OF IDEAS ARE BEING GERMINATED THAT LEND THEMSELVES TO THE IDEA DIVERSIFICATION.

>> WELL, AT SHELBURNE FARMS WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO NOT RESEARCH BUT DEMONSTRATION, DEMONSTRATING THE USE OF THE WHOLE.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THE WHOLE AREA THAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH AS I FEEL THAT ALL OF US HERE ARE LOOKING AT THE WHOLE OF VERMONT.

AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE WHOLE, WE HAVE PRESENTLY A DAIRY AND WE'RE PRODUCING BROWN SWISS MILK WHICH HAS A NICHE, AND WITH THAT NICHE WE'RE PRODUCING CHEESE TO FILL, AND THAT VALUE ADDED CAN ADD A LOT OF VALUE TO THE PRODUCT.

>> QUICKLY EXPLAIN VALUE ADDED FOR US IF YOU WILL, PLEASE.

>> THAT IS TAKING A PRODUCT AND PROCESSING IT FURTHER OR ADDING VALUE AS IT GOES ALONG SO THAT WE GET MORE OF THE CONSUMER DOLLAR.

>> I SEE.

GOOD.

WE HAVE A QUESTION ON THE TOPIC OF DIVERSIFICATION.

WILL YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF, PLEASE?

>> YES.

MY NAME IS ED POMAINVILLE.

I'VE BEEN INVESTIGATING BARLEY.

THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF MICROBREWERIES SPRINGING UP IN THIS AREA AND AROUND THE COUNTRY.

AND AS I UNDERSTAND, BARLEY HAS BEEN A PRODUCT EARLY IN VERMONT'S HISTORY, SUPPLIED MOST OF THE UNITED STATES IN ITS INFANCY WITH BARLEY FOR BEER BASICALLY.

I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT MARKET AND ITS PRODUCTION IN VERMONT.

>> WHO WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT BARLEY IN VERMONT?

DR.

RICHARDSON?

>> WELL, IT'S TRUE THAT BARLEY WAS ONE OF THE ORIGINAL CROPS IN THE STATE AS IT WAS IN ALMOST ALL THE TOWNS IF YOU LOOK AT THE THOMPSON'S GAZETTEER BACK THERE AT THE TURN OF THE 19TH CENTURY, AND IT FLOURISHED OKAY IN THE INITIAL NUTRITIONAL LEVELS THAT WERE IN THE SOILS AFTER THE FIRST DEFORESTATION.

THERE WAS ENOUGH NUTRITION THERE TO HELP IT KEEP GOING.

BUT THE PROBLEM WITH BARLEY IN VERMONT ON ANY KIND OF A LARGE SCALE IS THAT IT ACTUALLY REQUIRES HIGHER NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES, DESPITE THE HEATAVE WE HAVE OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, OR FEW YS I SHOULD SAY.

IT'S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO SVIVE VERY WELL IN TERMS OF ITS ECOLOGICAL CROP GEOGRAPHY, SO TO SPEAK, IN THIS AREA AS A MAJOR CROP.

YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PRODUCE RELATIVELY SMALL YIELDS PROBABLY OF BARLEY ON A LIMITED BASIS IN SOME YEARS AND NOT NECESSARILY IN EVERY YEAR, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULDN'T TRY TO WORK OUT THE MORE NORTHERLY CROPS THAT WOULD SURVIVE BETTER HERE.

>> I KIDDED EARLIER ABOUT BEING A GUY IN A SUIT AND TIE WHO GOES IN AND BUYS SOMETHING WRAPPED IN CELLOPHANE, BUT THE FACT IS, AND I'VE READ STUDIES AND I'M SURE WE ALL HAVE, THERE ARE PEOPLE LIVING IN AMERICA BY PROBABLY THE 10s OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WHO CANNOT ABSTRACTLY IMAGINE THAT LITTLE SQUARE OF RED MEAT HAVING A PRIOR LIFE OR A PRIOR SHAPE AS A FOUR-LEGGED ANIMAL.

JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN.

OUR IMAGINATION HAS ATROPHIED.

I HEAR A MURMUR OF ASSENT IN THE ROOM, AND WE'LL HEAR SOME MORE ABOUT THIS.

DR.

RICHARDSON, I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE STRONG IDEAS ABOUT WHAT AMERICA CAN LEARN FROM THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ALONG THESE LINES.

COULD YOU DEVELOP THAT A LITTLE BIT FOR US?

>> WELL, THE EUROPEANS HAVE SOME GOOD POINTS AND BAD POINTS, BUT I DO THINK THAT WE CAN LOOK AT WESTERN EUROPE AND WE CAN SAY THERE IS WHERE WE WILL BE HEADING IN SOME ASPECTS OF OUR ECONOMY AND SOCIETY OVER THE NEXT 30 YEARS.

WE'VE PICKED UP A LOT OF IDEAS FROM WESTERN EUROPE AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.

THE DIVERSIFICATION OF AGRICULTURE WE'RE CERTAINLY GOING TO SEE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT'S TAKING PLACE IN WESTERN EUROPE.

THEY'VE ALSO INTEGRATED AGRICULTURE INTO THINGS LIKE FARM TOURISM, WHICH HAS DIVERSIFIED THE ECONOMY, AND LINKED IT IN THROUGH THE VALUE-ADDED PRODUCTS, RECOGNIZING FORESTRY IS ALSO PART OF WHAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER WHEN WE LOOK AT AGRICULTURE, INTEGRATED FORESTRY, AGRICULTURE, FARM TOURISM, REGIONAL PLANNING AND EDUCATION INTO THE ECONOMIC DIVERSITY THAT'S COME ALONG.

SO I THINK WE CAN LEARN A LOT FROM WHAT WESTERN EUROPE HAS DONE SUCCESSFULLY.

>> I MUST SAY AS A FATHER OF TWO PUBLIC SCHOOL-AGED BOYS AND BEING ABLE TO SEE THEIR EXCITEMENT WHEN THEY ARE TAKEN OUT OF THE CLASSROOM AND INTO A HANDS-ON EXPERIENCE, I WOULD JUST SAY IF NO OTHER IDEA COMES OUT OF THESE MEETINGS THAN THE IDEA OF GETTING SCHOOL CHILDREN INVOLVED IN A TACTILE WAY IN VERMONT FARMING, THIS SERIES MIGHT REALLY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING.

>> LET ME GIVE YOU ONE SCARY STORY.

I HAD TO GIVE A LECTURE IN NEW YORK CITY TO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE BRONX, PEOPLE WHO WERE LEGISLATORS AND CONGRESS PEOPLE, AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS TRYING TO TEACH IS THE SORT OF THING WE'RE TALKING HERE, INTEGRATION OF THE ENVIRONMENT AND AGRICULTURE INTO ALL OF OUR DECISION-MAKING.

AND I TALKED ABOUT THE SOILS, AND AGRICULTURE AND WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN VERMONT, AND SHOWED SLIDES, AND AFTER HALFWAY THROUGH THIS MAN FROM THE BRONX IN A THICK BRONX ACCENT, WHO WAS A CONGRESSMAN THERE, CAME UP WITH TEARS IN HIS EYES AND SAID, "I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS SOIL UNDER NEW YORK CITY."

>> WOW.

>> AND HE WAS JUST ABOUT IN TEARS THAT HE WAS MAKING DECISIONS WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT WAS WHERE HIS FOOD CAME FROM, BUT HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THERE WAS SOIL UNDER THE CITY.

>> ABSOLUTELY STUNNING.

LET ME EXTEND THAT A LITTLE BIT NOW.

A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM OUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND OUR INTEREST GROUPS NOW, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ISSUES BEFORE THE STATE IS THE SUBURBANIZATION OF VERMONT, THE SPREAD OF THE SUBURBS, OF GIANT SHOPPING CENTERS AND DISCOUNT MALLS OFTEN BUILT ON FARMLAND.

CAN WE CONNECT THAT IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY TONIGHT TO THE FUTURE OF VERMONT AGRICULTURE, THE SUBURBANIZATION OF THE STATE, MR.

HINSDALE?

>> WELL, IT'S AN INTERESTING TOPIC.

I'VE SERVED AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE CHITTENDEN COUNTY REGIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION, AND ANYONE WHO FOLLOWS PLANNING IN CHITTENDEN COUNTY KNOWS IT'S A HOTBED OF DISCUSSION, THOSE PARTICULAR ISSUES, AS IS COMMISSIONER DUNSMORE'S HOME COUNTY, FRANKLIN COUNTY.

WE'RE STILL A STATE WHERE YOU AND I CAN WALK INTO THE STATEHOUSE, TALK TO OUR LEGISLATORS, A STATE WHERE OUR LEGISLATORS COME AND SIT AND PARTICIPATE IN PANELS, IN THE AUDIENCE, AND NOT JUST COME IF THEY GET TO BE ON THE PANEL.

WE'RE A HUMAN-SCALE STATE WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL MAKES A DIFFERENCE AND WE VALUE THAT BECAUSE IF WE LOSE THAT, WE'RE EVERYWHERE U.S.A.

AND SO IN TRYING TO PLAN FOR THE FUTURE OF THE STATE AND MAKE SOME RULES TO LIVE BY, TRYING TO PRESERVE THE DOWNTOWNS AS THE TRADIONAL COMMERCIAL HUBS AND HAVE THE TRADITIONAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A CLUSTERED COMMUNITY AND COUNTRYSIDE SURROUNDING THE COMMUNITY, AND KEEPING THEM SEPARATE AND HAVING AN IDENTITY ONE FROM THE OTHER AND NOT JUST BLENDING IN TOGETHER AS THEY HAVE ALL UP AND DOWN THE EAST COAST, IF WE LOSE THAT, WE WILL LOSE THE VERMONT IMAGE, WE WILL LOSE THE VALUE ADDED TO OUR PRODUCTS.

WE WILL LOSE THE ONLY EDGE WE HAVE THAT ALLOWS US TO BE COMPETITIVE IN THE HARSHER ENVIRONMENT, THE HARSHER CLIMATE THAT WE HAVE.

BUT WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THERE IS ENOUGH POPULATION AND WEALTH IN THE NORTHEAST TO BUY EVERY SINGLE ACRE IN THE STATE OF VERMONT TOMORROW FOR A TOY.

THE GRAND LIST OF GREENWICH, CONNECTICUT, IS LARGER THAN THE GRAND LIST.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY GRAND LIST, THE VALUE OF ALL THE PROPERTY IN THE STATE, THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY IN GREENWICH, CONNECTICUT, IS HIGHER THAN THE MARKET VALUE OF THE ENTIRE STATE OF VERMONT.

>> MEANING EXACTLY WHAT, MR.

HINSDALE?

>> MEANS THAT THE PROPERTY IS GREENWICH IS WORTH MORE THAN THE PROPERTY IN THE WHOLE STATE.

>> THEREFORE?

>> WELL, IF SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND WOKE UP TOMORROW AND DECIDED INSTEAD OF GOING TO BUY STOCKS AND BONDS THEY'D GO BUY VERMONT, IT WOULD ALL GET SOLD.

THAT'S TRUE.

WE'RE LITTLE UP HERE.

AND IF WE DON'T DEVELOP SOME RULES AND MAINTAIN SOME RULES, LIKE ACT 250, AND IF WE DON'T DO IT IN AN EVEN-HANDED, SANE WAY, AND IF WE DON'T CONTINUE TO PRESERVE OUR BEST FARMLAND AND COMPENSATE THE OWNERS OF THAT FARMLAND FOR THE LOSS OF THE POTENTIAL TO SELL IT FOR DEVELOPMENT, THEN WE WON'T HAVE AN AGRICULTURAL BASE BECAUSE THE LAND IS WORTH MORE FOR WAL-MARTS AND IT'S WORTH MORE FOR SECOND HOMES THAN IT IS FOR GROWING FORAGE, NO MATTER HOW WELL WE USE THE FORAGE, GROWING MAPLE TREES OR EVEN GROWING STRAWBERRIES.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HA TO FIGHT TO KEEP OUR HUMAN-SCALE COMMUNITY, NOT BY POSTING SIGNS AT THE STATE ENTRANCE THAT SAY, YOU KNOW, BRING YOUR TOURIST DOLLARS AND THEN GO HOME, BUT BY MAKING SURE THAT THE RULES THAT WE LIVE BY PROMOTE AND ENHANCE THIS BEAUTIFUL STATE INSTEAD OF DESTROY IT.

>> WELL SAID, MR.

HINSDALE.

DR.

RICHARDSON, I KNOW YOU HAVE THOUGHT AND WRITTEN A LOT ABOUT THIS SAME TOPIC.

YOU'VE FRAMED IT IN THE PARADIGMS OF COOPERATION AND POLARIZATION, AND I THINK YOU FEEL THAT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF POLARIZATION IS CREEPING INTO OUR NECESSARY DIALOGUES IN VERMONT AS REGARD THESE ISSUES.

COULD YOU ELABORATE ON THAT FOR US, PLEASE?

>> YES.

I THINK WHAT HAS OCCURRED IS THAT WE WORK OUT A WAY, WE SAY THERE ARE THOSE THAT WISH TO PRESERVE VERMONT AND THEY WANT TO CAST A MAGIC WAND AND KEEP IT THE WAY IT WAS INSTEAD OF ALLOWING IT TO KEEP GROWING, AND AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE THOSE THAT WANT TO MOVE AHEAD WITH CONSIDERABLE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND WE'VE PUT OURSELVES INTO A POSITION OF POLARIZATION.

AND AS LONG AS WE VERMONTERS ALLOW THAT POLARIZATION TO CONTINUE, THAT PAROCHIAL ATTITUDE OF I'LL DO WHAT I WANT ON MY OWN LAND, WHICH YOU CAN DO, BUT YOU STILL NEED TO DO THAT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE STATE.

ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO I BELIEVE OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS TO REDUCE THAT POLARIZATION TO HELP COOPERATION TO TAKE PLACE, TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE A UNIQUE RESOURCE AND ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO WORK TOGETHER, ENVIRONMENTALISTS, ECONOMISTS, THE LAND USE PLANNERS AND THE LEGISLATURE TO WORK TOGETHER TOWARDS THIS COMMON VISION OF THE FUTURE WHERE WE HAVE INTEGRATED ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, THAT WE REALLY HAVE TO TRY TO DO; OTHERWISE, THE FUTURE FOR AGRICULTURE IS GRIM.

>> AS WE MOVE TOWARDS THE END OF THIS DISCUSSION, AND I'M AFRAID TIME IS DRAWING SHORT AS IT ALWAYS DOES, BUT I'M GOING TO ASK EACH OF YOU PANEL MEMBERS TO START THINKING OF THE CONCERNS THAT MR.

HINSDALE AND DR.

RICHARDSON HAVE OUTLINED, POLARIZATION, COOPERATION, A SENSE OF COMMON CAUSE.

HOW CAN WE PRACTICALLY BEGIN TO HEAL AND SYNTHESIZE THE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION, THE CONTENDING FORCES FOR THE FUTURE OF THIS STATE AND HOW CAN WE PRACTICALLY ASSURE FOR A GOOD FUTURE FOR THE STATE OF VERMONT.

WHILE YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, WE'LL TAKE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE.

WOULD YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF, PLEASE?

>> YES.

MY NAME IS OKE O'BRIEN.

I'M FROM BARNET, VERMONT.

FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL BEING HERE.

I THINK IT'S A VERY POSITIVE THING THAT'S GOING ON.

MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE ANY ONGOING RESEARCH IN THE STATE OF VERMONT ABOUT THE HEMP PLANT GOING ON WHICH IS NOW LEGALLY GROWN IN ENGLAND AND, IF NOT, I'M WONDERING WHAT PROCEDURE WE CANO TO GET THE PROCESS BEGINNING TO RESEARCH IT.

>> THE HEMP PLANT.

COMMISSIONER?

>> I DON'T KNOW OF ANY ONGOING RESEARCH THAT'S ON THE UP AND UP.

(LAUGHTER) >> GOOD ANSWER, GEORGE.

>> HE SAID TACTFULLY.

>> I REALLY DON'T.

I'VE BEEN WRITTEN TO ON THAT SUBJECT, AND NOT ONLY FROM VERMONT, ABOUT POSSIBLY HAVING SOME RESEARCH IN THAT AREA, BUT I AT THIS POINT CERTAINLY HAVE NOT PURSUED IT, SO I CAN'T... >> SHERRY RUSSELL, IS THIS A VIABLE FORM OF DIVERSIFICATION?

>> WELL, IT'S REALLY NOT A JOKE.

I'VE READ A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HEMP WHICH IS WITHOUT THE CANNIB, SO IT'S NOT POTENT, BUT IT'S A VERY FAST-GROWING FIBER.

AS I UNDERSTAND, IT'S USED A LOT IN PAPERS AND EVEN TO MAKE CLOTHING, SO IT CAN BE A REPLACEMENT FOR HARVESTING TIMBER, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO CONSERVE YOUR TIMBER.

SO THAT'S ABOUT ALL I KNOW ABOUT HEMP.

I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE RESEARCHING IT.

>> OTHERS?

THANK YOU, SIR.

OKAY.

I GUESS THIS KIND OF IN A WAY IS AN EXTENSION, I'M NOT BEING FACETIOUS, OF NICHE MARKETING AND I WANT TO COME BACK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT.

I WALK INTO SPECIALTY STORES IN THE TOWN WHERE I LIVE, WHICH IS MIDDLEBURY, AND I LOOK ON THE SHELVES AND I SEE CANS OF VERMONT-PRODUCED SALSA, BARBECUE SAUCE, ALL KINDS OF PRODUCTS THAT I WOULD ASSOCIATE WITH THE SOUTH, SOUTH OF THE BORDER.

IS THIS A GOOD THING THAT THESE KINDS OF PRODUCTS, WHICH ARE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH BEING INDIGENOUS TO THE STATE, ARE NOW FINDING THEIR WAY INTO THE RETAIL STORES?

ARE THERE HIDDEN PROBLEMS?

MS.

RUSSELL?

>> WELL, I THINK WE DO HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF SPECIALTY FOODS AND SOME OF THEM ARE NOT AT ALL CONNECTED TO AGRICULTURE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT USE ANY LOCAL PRODUCTS.

YOU MIGHT MAKE A STRAWBERRY JAM, BUT YOU CAN'T GET STRAWBERRIES YEAR ROUND HERE SO YOU MAY RELY ON A SOURCE OF FROZEN STRAWBERRIES FROM OUT OF STATE BUT, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S BECAUSE THE VERMONT NAME SELLS THAT WE HAVE THESE PRODUCTS, AND I ALSO THINK IT'S BECAUSE HERE IN VERMONT WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN KNOWN AS INDEPENDENT YANKEES AND GOING INTO BUSINESS FOR YOURSELF IS JUST A NATURAL FOR VERMONTERS, AND I DO THINK THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A LOT OF THOSE KIND OF UP AND COMING INDUSTRIES.

>> SOME PEOPLE HAVE COMPLAINED SOME OF THESE PRODUCTS DON'T USE PRODUCTS THAT ARE PRODUCED WITHIN THE STATE; THEREFORE, IT'S IN A SENSE A KIND OF SPURIOUS PRACTICE.

IS THAT REALLY... >> WELL, THERE IS A NEED FOR SOME MORE RESEARCH INTO PROCESSING FACILITIES.

I KNOW THAT LIKE THE SHOREHAM CO-OP IS ABOUT TO STUDY THE FEASIBILITY OF BUILDING A PROCESSING PLANT SO THAT THEY CAN ADD VALUE TO THEIR APPLES.

INSTEAD OF JT SELLING THEM WHOLESALE, THEY MIGHT TRY TO MAKE AN APPLESAUCE OR AN APPLE ICE, AND THEY'RE JUST THE PLANNING STAGES.

I THINK THAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT AS FAR AS THE FUTURE, ONE THING TH I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE INFORMATION MORE READILY AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE, AND COMPUTERS ARE BECOMING MORE AND MORE WIDELY USED.

I HAPPEN TO HAVE A PHONE MODEM AND A COMPUTER AND I'M TIED INTO SOMETHING THAT'S AN ON-LINE SERVICE, AND I JUST SENT E-MAIL TO THE PRESIDENT THROUGH MY ON-LINE SERVICE.

IT WAS REALLY EASY.

I DIDN'T HAVE TO PUT A STAMP ON AN ENVELOPE.

I THINK THERE'S POSSIBILITIES IN THAT DIRECTION WHERE SOMEONE WHO HAS A SPECIFIC QUESTION LIKE, CAN I RAISE BARLEY IN VERMONT, THEY CAN TURN ON THEIR COMPUTER AND THEY CAN TYPE IN A QUESTION AND HERE'S DR.

RICHARDSON WHO HAPPENS TO HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION, BUT WE'RE NOT THERE YET.

>> WHY AREN'T WE THERE YET?

>> WELL, THERE'S A GAP.

THERE'S DEFINITELY PEOPLE WITH EXPERTISE IN THIS STATE AND THERE'S LOTS OF RESEARCH GOING ON, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO WANT THE ANSWERS, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T KNOW ERE TOURN TO AND THEY COULD SPEND A LOT OF TIME LOOKING.

SO, TH'S SOMETHING I REALLY HOPE TO SEE MORE OF IN THE FUTURE IS MORE INFORMATION TRANSFER TECHNOGY.

>> WHILE WE'RE SPEAKING OF INFORMATION, THE QUESTION OF HOW WELL YOU PANELISTS FEEL VERMONT FARM ISSUES ARE COVERED IN THE VERMONT NEWS MEDIA.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT POLITICAL BIAS.

I'M TALKING ABOUT COVERAGE, AMOUNT OF SPACE DEVOTED TO THESE KINDS OF ISSUES.

IS IT NECESSARY THAT IT SHOULD BE BETTER?

IS IT ADEQUATE?

>> I FEEL THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT OF JUST THE GENERAL AGRICULTURAL ISSUES, TO MAKE THE GENERAL POPULUS A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER IN THIS SHOW, OF WHERE FOOD EMANTES FROM, AND IT'S THE MOST BASIC DOLLAR ON VERMONT MAIN STREET U.S.A, BUT WE DON'T DO A GOOD JOB OF TELLING THE PUBLIC ABOUT IT.

>> I'VE OFTEN FELT WE DO HAVE KIND OF AN UNTAPPED RESOURCE IN THIS STATE WITH OUR CABLE ACCESS CHANNELS IN EACH TOWN.

YOU GUYS COULD GET INVOLVED IN IT.

YOU COULD BE PRODUCERS.

YOU GUYS COULD GET A VIDEO CAMERA, A MICROPHONE, SOME TAPE.

IT'S POSSIBLE NOW TO MAKE YOUR OWN INFORMATIONAL PROGRAMS AND GET THOSE TAPES ON THE ACCESS CHANNELS.

IT REALLY IS, I THINK, AN UNDERUSED RESOURCE.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, THOUGH, WE DO HAVE A GAP, LIKE I SAID, IN TECHNOLOGY BECAUSE THE CABLE DOES NOT REACH EVERY RURAL TOWN IN VERMONT.

>> THAT'S TRUE, IT DOESN'T, BUT IT SATURATES MORE THAN IT HAS.

AND AS LONG AS IT EXISTS.

AND I THINK PEOPLE WATCH IT.

>> IT'S COMING IN THE FUTURE.

>> WE HAVE ANOER QUESTION.

PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A QUESTION OR COMMENT.

MY NAME IS TIM MATHER.

I'M A CONTRACTOR HERE IN ADDISON AND NORTHERN RUTLAND COUNTY.

I'M A FARM BUREAU MEMBER.

I UNDERSTAND HOW TOUGH IT IS TO BE A FARMER THESE DAYS, MEETING THE BOTTOM LINE.

MOST OF THE TIME YOU DON'T MEET IT, BUT I SEE VERMONT'S FUTURE, A STRONG ECONOMY IN THE FUTURE BASED ON FARMING, AND SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURS WORKING HAND IN HAND TO TAKE THE PRODUCTS HERE WITH OTHER PARTS AND MAKE THEM ANOTHER PRODUCT, OR STRAWBERRIES, OR MAPLE SYRUP, OR WHETHER IT'S WOOD, OR TIMBER OR DAIRY, THEY HAVE TO WORK HAND IN HAND BECAUSE THERE'S SO FEW DAIRY FARMS LEFT, THE ONES THAT HAVE TO BE SO BIG, EVEN THOSE HAVE A CLOSE MARGIN.

AND THE ONLY WAY I SEE A STNG ECONOMY IN THE FUTURE IN VERMONT IS SMALL BUSINESS WORKING WITH AGRICULTURE TO TAKE THE PRODUCTS THEY HAVE HERE SO THAT WAY WE'RE NOT LOSING FARMLAND TO MORE SUBURBAN GROWTH.

I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF SUBURBAN GROWTH OR A MILLION SECOND HOMES.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO KEEP VERMONT GOING.

>> EXCELLENT POINT.

WE BEGAN THE HOUR TONIGHT TALKING ABOUT THE VERMONT DAIRY FARMER, WHO IS PROBABLY THE MOST ARCHETYPAL KIND OF FARMER AND I REALLY HAVE BEEN WANTING TO MOVE THE DISCUSSION INTO THE AREA OF WHAT ELSE A DAIRY FARMER HAS TO DO TO SURVIVE.

DOES HE HAVE TO DIVERSIFY?

DOES HE HAVE TO BECOME A PART-TIME BUSINESSMAN IN ANOTHER FIELD IN ORDER TO SUPPLEMENT HIS INCOME AND MAKE HIS LIVELIHOODS?

HOW DO THE QUESTIONER'S COMMENTS APPLY TO THE REALITIES OF THE DRY FARMER IN A CHANGING ECONOMIC WORLD?

COMMISSIONER?

>> I DON'T FEEL THAT EVERY DAIRY FARMER HAS TO DIVERSIFY, BUT THERE ARE SOME INDIVIDUAL CASE-BY-CASE SETTINGS THAT IT WOULD GREATLY ENHANCE THAT SETTING IF THE DAIRY FARMER WERE TO DIVERSIFY INTO ANOTHER AGRICULTURAL COMMODITY OR INTO SOME OFF-FARM OCCUPATION.

AND WE SEE IT DAY-IN AND DAY-OUT THAT HAPPENING.

THAT IS WHAT ALLOWS SOME OF THE DAIRY FARMS THAT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONTINUE.

OTHERS EMPLOY TECHNOLOGY ADVANCEMENTS AND CONCENTRATE THEIR EFFORTS ON EXPANDING THEIR OWN DAIRY OR THE INTENSITY OF THEIR OWN DAIRY OPERATIONS.

I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT SAY THAT THERE'S A MOLDED ANSWER FOR THAT.

>> LEONARD GERMAIN?

>> I AGREE, BUT I THINK EACH PERSON, EACH FARMER, HAS TO LOOK AT HIS OWN ABILITIES, HIS OWN FARM AND TO SEE WHETHER DIVERSIFICATION FITS.

SOME FARMERS ARE REAL SPECIALISTS IN WHAT THEY DO AND DIVERSIFICATION, AS WE MAY THINK, INTO OTHER PRODUCTS MAY NOT FIT.

HE CERTAINLY HAS TO LOOK AT WAYS TO BECOME MORE PROFITABLE, TO MAKE HIS OPERATION HAVE A BETTER BOTTOM LINE.

>> I'VE HEARD THE CASE MADE THAT FARMERS, IN FACT, ARE THE MOST INHERENTLY DIVERSIFIED PEOPLE ON THE AMERICAN SCENE, THE RANGE OF WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO AND WHAT THEY HAVE TO KNOW, ECONOMICS, ANIMAL HUSBANDRY, THE GROWING SEASONS, THE KIND OF MANAGEMENT SKILLS, AND IT'S BEEN SAID AS THE FARMER LEAVES THE FARM AND MOVES INTO THE CITY AND BECOMES A SPECIALIST IN SOME KIND OF AN URBAN JOB, THEY ACTUALLY LOSE SKILLS AND BECOME NOT QUITE AS BROAD BASED AS THEY WERE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS.

>> WELL, I THINK WE'VE BEEN USING THE WORD DIVERSIFICATION TO MEAN ONE THING, TO MEAN GROW ANOTHER CROP.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT IN TERMS OF DIVERSIFICATION AND SPECIALIZATION WITHIN DAIRY, RIGHT NOW MOST FAMILY DAIRY FARMERS ARE DIVERSIFIED SPECIALISTS BECAUSE THEY GROW CROPS, THEY MANAGE PASTURES, THEY MAINTAIN MACHINERY, THEY KEEP RECORDS, THEY TAKE CARE OF ANIMALS, AND IN SOME CASES, IN ADDITION TO PRODUCING MILK, THEY ALSO DO VALUE ADDED, OR ARE INVOLVED IN THE MARKETING OF THEIR MILK OR PARTICIPATE IN A CO-OP THAT MARKETS THEIR MILK.

>> DR.

POWERS, IN THE NEXT GENERATION, THE KIDS WHO ARE NOW IN COLLEGE, ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE THE SKILLS TO DO THE KIND OF DIVERSIFICATION THAT MR.

HINSDALE IS TALKING ABOUT?

>> I THINK SO.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THAT AS TECHNOLOGY INCREASES, AS OUR KNOWLEDGE OF THINGS LIKE NUTRITION, FOR EXAMPLE, INCREASE TREMENDOUSLY, RAPIDLY, YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO SOME SEE SPECIALIZATION.

FOR EXAMPLE, I KNOW SEVERAL FARMERS WHO ONE MEMBER OF THE FAMILY TENDS TO TAKE CARE OF THE NUTRITIONAL ASPECTS OF THE HERD, MAYBE SOMETHING ELSE.

THERE'S SORT OF A DIVISION OF KNOWLEDGE, FOR EXAMPLE, AND RESPONSIBILITY.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BECOME MORE COMMONPLACE, I THINK IT HAS TO, AND I THINK OVERALL MANAGEMENT OF THE FARM IS GOING TO BE MORE BUSINESS RELATED AND MORE PEOPLE ORIENTED.

>> DR.

RICHARDSON, WHAT ABOUT THE QUESTION OF LEADERSHIP, FARMERS AS LEADERS, NOT JUST COMPETENT MANAGERS OF THEIR OWN DOMAINS BUT LEADERS IN THIS STATE?

WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU?

>> REMEMBER, I STARTED OUT BY SAYING I THOUGHT THE FUTURE OF FARMING WAS GRIM UNLESS, AND I TRIED TO THINK OF SORT OF A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS WHICH I BELIEVE NEED TO HAVE CHANGED, AND LEADERSHIP IS CERTAINLY ONE OF THEM.

LEADERSHIP IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE, LEADERSHIP IN OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES, LEADERSHIP IN ALL LEVELS, AND I THINK IT'S VITAL FOR AGRICULTURE TO REALLY DO WELL IN THIS STATE IN THE FUTURE FOR FARMERS TO TAKE LEADERSHIP ROLES IN THEIR RURAL COMMUNITIES, GOING IN THE LEGISLATURE, WORKING WITH FARM BUREAU, WORKING WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF AGRICULTURE AND STATING THEIR POSITIONS BECAUSE THEY TEND NOT TO DO TH.

THEY TEND TO BE VERY ISOLATED, AND THAT ISOLATION MEANS THAT VERY OFTEN THEY'RE NOT INTEGRATED INTO ANY ASPECT OF OUR RURAL VERMONT.

AND SO THEY TEND TO END UP IN OFTEN VERY UNCOMFORTABLE SITUIONS PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND SOCIALLY BECAUSE THE ONLY PEOPLE THEY TEND TO SEE ARE THE AGWAY GUYS WHO COME AROUND TO SELL THEM SOMETHING, SO TO SPEAK, AND SO THEY GET ISOLATED AND THAT AFFECTS EVERYTHING ABOUT THEIR AGRICULTURE.

SO THEY NEED TO TAKE A LEADERSHIP ROLE TO WORK TOGETHER IN GROUPS WHICH IS SOME OF THE THINGS WE DO WITH OUR E.P.I.C.P.

PROJECT, GET THESE MEN AND WOMEN FARMERS TO WORK TOGETHER TO SHARE IDEAS, THAT'S LOCAL LEADERSHIP, AND THEN TO WORK IN THEIR TOWNS ON THE LAND USE PLANNING AND ON SOIL PROTECTION AND PRESERVATION, AND THEN TO WORK WITH THE FARM BUREAU AND WITH THE YOUTH IN LEADERSHIP SO THE LEADERSHIP ROLE OF FARMERS, AND THEIR KIDS, AND WIVES OR HUSBANDS IS ABSOLUTELY VITAL IF THEY'RE GOING TO DO WELL.

>> IS ISOLATION A PROBLEM, SHERRY RUSSELL, IN YOUR VIEW?

>> YEAH.

I HAVE HEARD A LOT OF FARMERS COMPLAIN THAT THEY CAN'T GET OUT TO MEETINGS.

IT'S REALLY HARD, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE A DAIRY FARMER, YOU'VE GOT CERTAIN CHORES THAT HAVE TO BE DONE EVERY DAY, USUALLY TWICE A DAY, YOU CAN'T GO VERY FAR FROM HOME UNLESS YOU CAN AFFORD HIRED HELP, AND SO ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE DECISIONS THAT ARE BEING MADE AT YOUR LOCAL MEETINGS, LIKE YOUR PLANNING COMMISSION, THESE ARE DISCUSSIONS THAT THE FARMERS I THINK GENERALLY FEEL THAT THEY CANNOT PARTICIPATE.

THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS BUT, IN GENERAL, FARMERS JUST DON'T LIKE TO GO OUT TO MEETINGS FROM 7 TO 10 OR 11 AT NIGHT, AND THAT'S A PROBLEM.

AND YOU ASKED A QUESTION EARLIER ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE AS FAR AS OUR LAND BASE AND STUFF, AND THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION THAT I WANTED TO BE SURE GOT ANSWERED.

I THINK THAT EVEN IF FARMERS CAN'T ATTEND MEETINGS, THAT OTHER PEOPLE WHO DO HAVE THE TIME CAN BE SENSITIVE TO WHAT A FARMER'S NEEDS ARE BECAUSE THE FACT IS THAT THE FARMER OWNS MOST OF THE LAND BASE.

THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS.

AND SO IF OTHER PEOPLE ARE AT THE TOWN PLANNING OR SELECT BOARD MEETINGS AND SAYING, WELL, LET'S PUT THIS LITTLE CLAUSE HERE IN THE PLANNING THAT THIS IS WHAT WE CAN DO WITH OPEN LAND, WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT OUR SCENIC VISTAS, THESE ARE IMPORTANT THIN THAT REALLY DO HAPPEN AT TOWN MEETINGS, AND FARMERS OFTEN AREN'T THERE.

THEY'RE NOT PART OF THE DISCUSSION AND THAT'S WHY SOME OF THIS POLARITY DEVELOPS.

SO I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE TO COMMIT THE TIME TO WORK WITH THEIR LOCAL GOVERNMENT REALLY, REALLY NEED TO BE SENSITIVE TO WHAT THE LANDOWNERS' NEEDS ARE AND COMMUNICATE WITH THEM.

>> LET'S LOOK NOW AT OUR FINAL FILM CLIP OF THE EVENING WHICH IS GOING TO TAKE VERMONT FROM ITS TRADITIONAL ROLE AS A SMALL ISOLATED FARM STATE INTO THE GLOBAL FARM ECONOMY.

WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM DR.

CATHY DONNELLY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT, DEPARTMENT OF ANIMAL AND FOOD SCIENCES, WHO WILL TELL US THAT THE OPERATION AND SCALE OF VERMONT'S FARMS CAN BEST BE USED AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE WORLD CAN BEST FEED ITSELF.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FIND VERY APPEALING ABOUT VERMONT AGRICULTURE IS ITS SMALL SCALE AND THE RELEVANCE OF THAT SMALL SCALE TO THE REST OF THE GLOBE.

I'VE BEEN IN OTHER STATES WHERE THE SCALE OF AGRICULTURE IS SO MASSIVE AND YOU BRING ON BOARD INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT NEVER AGAIN WILL BE ABLE TO RELATE TO AGRICULTURE IN THEIR HOME COUNTRIES VERSUS WHAT THEY'VE SEEN IN THE MIDWEST OR IN CALIFORNIA.

I LOOK AT HERE IN VERMONT WE ARE SO RELEVANT TO MOST OF THE WORLD THE WAY THAT THEY PRODUCE FOOD, AND FEEDING A HUNGRY GLOBE IS GOING TO BE AN INCREDIBLE CHALLENGE FOR ALL OF US, AND I'M EXCITED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES OF VERMONT TO REALLY BE A PLACE WHERE PERSONS FROM ALL OVER THE GLOBE CAN COME AND LEARN ABOUT A BETTER WAY TO PRODUCE MORE FOOD.

>> LET'S BRING IT FULL CIRCLE NOW.

I ASKED THE PANEL A FEW MINUTES AGO TO BEGIN THINKING ABOUT WAYS, AS WE SUM UP OUR FEELINGS ABOUT VERMONT IN THE FUTURE OF AGRICULTURE, TO BE THINKING OF PRACTICAL WAYS IN WHICH TH STATE CAN SORT OF HEAL THE DIVISIVENESS, OBTAIN A COMMON CAUSE AND SUSTAIN THE GREAT LEGACY THAT WE HAVE AS A FARMING STATE.

CATHY DONNELLY HAS GIVEN US AN EXAMPLE OF HOW A SMALL STATE CAN BE A PARADIGM FOR THE WORLD.

LET'S BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT VERMONT'S FUTURE IN THAT CONTEXT, AND I'LL JUST GO AROUND THE PANEL, STARTING WITH YOU, COMMISSIONER, AND ASK YOU WHETHER THIS IS ONE VIABLE AGENDA FOR THE FUTURE OF VERMONT FARMING.

>> I THINK IT IS.

I THINK THAT WE IN AGRICULTURE ARE A RESILIENT LOT, AND I THINK THAT WE'VE REFERRED TO THROUGHOUT THE DISCUSSION OF THIS PROGRAM ABOUT EDUCATION MANY TIMES.

I THINK WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE DIALOGUE AND COOPERATION TO AVOID POLARIZATION, AND THE MORE THAT WE CAN GET PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT PROBLEMS, WE CAN COME TO SOME COMMON GROUND.

EVERYONE HAS TO GIVE IN THAT KIND OF A DIALOGUE.

AND THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE RIGHT ANSWER BUT ONE THAT WE CAN ARRIVE AT AND ALL LIVE WITH, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE THIS BIG INGREDIENT OF COMMON SENSE HAS TO COME IN AND PLAY A ROLE.

>> LEONARD GERMAIN?

>> WELL, VERY DEFINITELY.

I FEEL VY, VERY STRONGLY THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A FUTURE BECAUSE OF ALL THAT WE'RE SAYING HERE TONIGHT AND WHAT WE'RE PUTTING TOGETHER, THAT WE ARE FOCUSING, WE ARE GOING IN A DIRECTION THAT WE'RE ALL POSITIVE THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A FUTURE AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO SURVIVE.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE NOT JUST VERMONT BUT IT'S GOING TO BE INTERNATIONAL.

AT SHELBURNE FARMS LAST YEAR WE HAD 110,000 PEOPLE VISIT, AND PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN AGRICULTURE.

THEY'RE INTERESTED IN LEARNING, THEY'RE INTERESTED IN WHERE THEIR FOOD IS COMING FROM AND ALSO WHAT FARMERS ARE DOING.

THERE IS A SILENT REVOLUTION THAT'S BEEN GOING ON IN THIS STATE FOR MANY YEARS AND PEOPLE ARE GETTING BACK TO THE LAND.

>> CLARK HINSDALE?

BRIEFLY.

>> WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IN TERMS OF WHERE WE'RE GOING WHAT GOT US TO ALL THE POSITIVE POINTS ABOUT VERMONT AGRICULTURE IN THE STATE OF VERMONT THAT WE ENJOY IN THIS BEAUTIFUL STATE.

THOSE INGREDIENTS WERE SMALL-SCALE COMMUNITIES, A STRONG INDEPENDENT CITIZEN DEMOCRACY, LOCAL LEADERSHIP, LOCAL DECISION-MAKING AND PROBLEM SOLVING, AND AS THE COMMISSIONER SAID, "A GOOD DOSE OF COMMON SENSE."

THOSE ARE THE INGREDIENTS THAT GOT US AS FAR AS WE'VE GOTTEN.

IT'S GOTTEN US THE RESPECT OF THE REGION, PERHAPS THE RESPECT OF THE WORLD, AND IF WE NUTURE THOSE PRINCIPLES, WE WILL DO WELL NOT ONLY IN AGRICULTURE, BUT AS ONE OF THE EARLIER QUESTIONERS SAID, IN OUR SMALL BUSINESS ORIENTED, INDEPENDENT STATE AS WELL.

>> DR.

POWERS?

>> THE KEY TO IT IS EDUCATION.

ONE, EDUCATION OF THE CONSUMING PUBLIC AS TO WHAT IT TAKES TO PRODUCE FOOD, WHERE IT COMES FROM, THE PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH IT AND SO ON.

THE SECOND IS THE EDUCATION OF OUR NEXT GENERATION.

THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF.

YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND IT SO THAT YOU CAN CIDE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT AND DO THE BEST JOB THAT YOU POSSIBLY CAN.

AND, ALSO, THE EDUCATION BOTH SIDES ON ANY ISS.

WHETHER IT BE URBANIZATION VERSUS AGRICULTURE, BO SIDES DO NEED TO UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER'S POSITION AND THE COMMISSIONER'S RIGHT, WE NEED A COMPROMISE.

THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE COMPROMISE.

>> DR.

RICHARDSON?

>> I HOPE EVERYBODY NOTICES THAT REGARDLESS OF WHERE WE'RE COMING FROM, WE HAVE A LOT OF COMMONALITY IN WHAT WE'RE SAYING HERE.

MY WORK IS BOTH LOCAL AND GLOBAL.

I DO A LOT OF INTERNATIONAL CONSULTING ON AGRICULTURE AND ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES, AND MY SORT OF FINAL WORDS MIGHT BE, PAY ATTENTION.

PAY ATTENTION TO WHERE WE VERMONTERS ARE SEEN BY THE REST OF THE WORLD BECAUSE PEOPLE DO LOOK TO US FOR LEADERSHIP AND THEY DO COME TO US FOR IDEAS, AND THAT EDUCATION IS GOING TO BE THE KEY TO WHETHER OR NOT VERMONT AGRICULTURE REALLY DOES SURVIVE IN THE FUTURE, AND THAT MEANS TEACHING OUR CHILDREN AT SCHOOLS IN A MANNER WHICH IS INTERDISCIPLINARY AND NOT IN FRAGMENTED DISCIPLINES ONLY.

GETTING THEM OUT THERE ONTO THE FARMS AS WELL AS INTO THE CLASSROOM.

>> AND, SHERRY RUSSELL?

>> I'M A VERMONTER.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, THIS IS MY HOME TOWN HERE.

I DID SOME PLAYS ON THIS STAGE WHEN I WAS A KID.

I LOVE THE SOIL.

I'M NOT UNIQUE.

THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS STATE THAT REALLY LOVE AGRICULTURE.

EVEN IF WE'RE NOT GETTING OUR HANDS DIRTY EVERY DAY, WE JUST RESPECT IT AND WE FEEL IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR TDITION AND OUR FUTURE.

AND I WANTED TO SAY ONE OTHER POINT IS THAT DR.

DONNELLY'S COMMENT ABOUT US BEING A SMALL ATE, A THAT'S ADVANTAGE IN THAT WE CAN WORK TOGETR TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT OUR RECENT HISTORY, WE BANNED BILLBOARDS.

I MEAN, THAT WAS A RADICAL THING BACK TN.

WE DID A 5 CENT DEPOSIT ONODA CANS.

THOSE WERE VERY UNUSUAL STEPS FOR VERMONT TO TAKE AT THE TIME.

AND I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES AND CHALLENGES HERE THAT IF WE'RE ALL WORKING TOGEER, I THINK WE CAN SOLVE ANY DIFFICULTIES THAT COME ALONG.

>> I WOULD SIMPLY ONLY ADD THAT I AM DELIGHTED IN THE QUALITY OF CONVERSATION FROM THIS PANEL TONIGHT.

IT IS A VERY FITTING CLOSE TO OUR SERIES OF TOWN MEETINGS ABOUT THE ISSUES IN VERMONT FARMING.

YOU HAVE CERTAINLY EDUCATED ONE FLATLANDER.

I THINK BY EXTENSION YOU HAVE ENRICHED AND ENLIGHTENED THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF ALL VERMONT PEOPLE, ALL WHO CARE ABOUT FARMING IN VERMONT, AND I THINK YOU HAVE EXTENDED THE REPERTOIRE OF PEOPLE WHO CARE, AND SO I THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART AND ON BEHALF OF VERMONT E.T.V.

FOR YOUR EXCELLENT IDEAS TONIGHT.

I WOULD ONLY CLOSE BY SAYING IF WE QUESTION WHETHER VERMONT FARMERS WILL CONTINUE TO LIVE OUT THIS VANISHING IDEAL OF HUMANE STEWARDSHIP, OF A VANISHING LANDSCAPE AND A GOOD STEWARDSHIP OVER THE CROPS AND THE ANIMALS IN VERMONT, WE CAN PROFIT BY THE WORDS OF THE ESSAYIST WENDELL BARRY, WHO I THINK SPOKE FOR ALL FARMERS AND PERHAPS ALL PEOPLE WHEN HE SAID, "NO MATTER HOW URBAN OUR LIFE, OUR BODIES LIVE BY FARMING.

WE COME FROM THE EARTH AND RETURN TO IT, AND SO WE LIVE IN AGRICULTURE AS WE LIVE IN FLESH."

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

I'M RON POWERS.

GOOD NIGHT.