Murphy Austin Adams Schoenfeld, LLP, focusing on business law and commercial litigation, is proud to support Rob on the Road - Region Rising.

More information available at murphyaustin.com.

And now Rob on the Road, exploring Northern California.

[Rob] Joining us now on Rob at Home is the mayor of Sacramento, Mayor Darrell Steinberg.

It is great to see you here on Rob at home.

Thank you for doing this.

Rob, thanks so much for having me.

It's a real honor.

I'm thrilled to have you here.

And this entire episode is about a journey.

It's about your journey into why mental health challenges matter to you, as a human being.

This episode is not about politics.

It's about personal passion.

And I'd like to talk to you about yours, with mental health, uh, issues.

Will you tell me, first of all, when did this begin with you?

Well, it actually began when I was in college, um, when I was, uh, an 18 and 19 year old college student at UC Berkeley.

I lived in, uh, what was known as "Unit Two" in the, uh, Berkeley dormitories, and housed within Unit Two was the famous Center for Independent Living, which was the organization- a advocacy organization, but also a service organization for people, um, and students at Berkeley who were living with physical disabilities.

And I just became friends with, um, some of my fellow students, uh, who worked with the Center for Independent Living.

And I was just struck, and I...

I can't explain it, except to say that I was struck by what I call the "normalcy" of my fellow students.

Even though they were- several were quadriplegic, had no use of their limbs, they were normal.

They were real people.

We talked sports together.

We... we... we... we were experiencing college together.

And I saw then, uh, as a very young man, that the flip side of disability is ability.

And we so often focus on the "dis" part of it, as opposed to the "able" part of it.

Well, fast forward, I ended up at UC Davis, uh, School of Law.

When I was in my third year, I was assigned, uh, to tutor a number of students, including two students who were quadriplegic.

Um, UC Davis, in some ways, the law school was ahead of its time, in that it admitted students with serious disabilities, severe disabilities, and- But at the same time, this was prior to the Americans with Disabilities Act, and there were certain parts of the law school that were not accessible, including the moot courtroom, where, uh, able-bodied people, like myself, got to practice our... our, uh, advocacy skills in... in front of a jury and with a judge sitting on high.

The students with disabilities, because there was no lift in the moot courtroom, had to go, uh, down to a small classroom and did not get the genuine experience.

So, the three of us- myself, um, my friends Mimi Jones and Mike Dooner- uh, decided that we were going to make a case to build a lift in the moot courtroom.

And we went to the dean and, uh, he was interested and said, "We'd like to do it.

We don't have the money, but let us try to find it."

And I continued- We continued our advocacy for a number of months and, finally, I got frustrated with the slow pace of, uh, progress.

And so, I went over in my third year- I was 24 years old- uh, to Mrak Hall at... at the University of California Davis Central Administration, met with the dean of facilities for the entire university, and I said, "When can the law school expect the money?"

And he said, "I don't know what you're talking about.

We offered the law school the money months ago.

They turned it down because they didn't want to ruin or affect the esthetic look of the courtroom."

I said, "Did they put that in writing?"

He said, "Yes, they did."

I said, "Would you mind if I, uh, received a copy of the letter?"

He said, "Sure."

Within several days, I had that letter on the front page of two Davis newspapers, and within four months, that lift was built.

[Rob] Good for you!

That was... that was my formative experience, as a young person, uh, about the power of advocacy, about the power of using whatever... whatever God-given skill or experience you might have to try to make life better for other people.

And, um, and it was also another experience that taught me that the flip side of disability is ability, because law school is hard and we all struggled.

And imagine not being able to even physically turn the page of a heavy casebook and making it through, and that's what my friends Mike and Mimi did.

And they died, both of them, too early in life, but I will never forget them.

And they've always been, um, sort of on my right shoulder here, um, as I... [Rob] Wow.

...as I have done my work through the years.

And so, I've always been interested in disability.

And during your time in... in the state legislature, you went on to author more than 80 bills, many of them now laws, many of them involving mental health treatment.

Um, they also dealt directly with the Foster system and education.

[Mayor Steinberg] Autism.

I think all of it ties into mental health.

It...it all tie... it all ties together.

So, in about 2003, Rusty Selix and I sat down together and said- asked ourselves a question.

"Are we really satisfied with 5,000 people getting help?"

That was the number of people we were able to help under AB2034.

"Or, do we want to go bigger?"

And we both looked at each other and said, "Why not do an initiative, and use the success from these early years of AB34 and 2034 to make the case?"

And we then launched, um, Proposition 63.

Uh, we did some polling.

We saw that nobody had ever tried a millionaire's tax before.

And why not a millionaire's tax, and have all the money go to the most vulnerable people in our society, those with- those living with serious and persistent mental illness who aren't getting the help and the attention they need?

We passed Prop 63 in 2004 with the bare minimum amount of money.

We ran one week of statewide television.

Uh, we kind of ran under the radar and we won 53% of the vote.

And we won, I think, for several reasons.

One, the main reason we won is because even though we focused on the homeless mentally ill, everybody knows somebody.

This became personal to people, and, um, the stories that began being told about loved ones, about, uh, family members, about friends, about coworkers, about ourselves, um, I think really resonated.

Prop 63 has now, uh, been around for 18 years.

It's generated almost $30 billion.

It's now up to $3.8 billion a year.

And though, um, there are some imperfections that we continue to work on fixing, it has literally saved tens of thousands of lives because it has been put to work around suicide prevention and reduction, around what we call Full Service Partnerships, which are, um, are "whatever it takes," including housing, mental health, substance abuse, alcohol, uh, treatment, um, so that people can get their lives back.

And, um, and... and it has been, um, a remarkable transformation.

And that wasn't all.

I worked on autism, and, uh, the seminal bill that requires insurance companies now to cover applied behavioral therapy, um, on- as you said, on child welfare and Foster Care and many other parts of trying to fix the mental health system, including in 2018, SB82, that Governor Brown signed, it provided over $300 million for alternatives to emergency rooms for people in crisis.

So, um, it has been a journey and, certainly, the system is not fixed.

Um, in... in... in... in so many ways, it still is broken.

Um, we can talk about why I think that is, but- I am curious, though, how do you- How- When you see this, you... you see all of the successes, because you have firsthand access to that.

And I also have to say, you also see those that are struggling everywhere.

And that, I am- I firmly believe that whether you enter into a situation where you are experiencing homelessness and you already have a mental health crisis, if you don't, you will, when you are on the streets.

I'm curious, how do you keep your personal pla- uh, passion going, when it is so apparent?

Among the people who are chronically homeless.

I completely agree with you.

If you were not living with serious mental illness and/or substance abuse issues when you became homeless, you stay out on the streets for any appreciable period of time, you will be suffering.

And I see the continued- um, the continued brokenness of the overall system, um, and I continue my advocacy at the state level.

I have an institute in my name, that- where we've got a top notch team of advocates that have one agenda, and that is to help fix the system- right?

- all the broken parts of it, whether it's, uh, the lack of, uh, uh, an emergency access number for people- we now have 988- whether it's fighting for greater parity on the private insurance side, because there continues to be a... a major difference between the way physical- uh, traditional physical illnesses are treated and brain-based illnesses, which, by the way, are physical as well, because the brain is part of the body.

Um, we, uh, continue to work on prevention and early intervention and more school-based services.

And of course, the homeless problem, in my opinion, when all is said and done, and you get through all of why we have such dysfunction and problems, here's the fact that we must acknowledge- there is no right to mental health care, there is no legal right to mental health care, there is no legal right to housing, there is no legal right to shelter.

Um, and... and of course, there's a legal right to public education, and an obligation for government to build the public schools that, uh, ensure that every child can go to public schools.

If housing, if mental health care, if shelter is as important as we say it is, and as we know it must be, it's as basic as anything in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, then it must become a legal right, because when it becomes a legal right, the systems that are responsible for actually serving people will be required to act with much greater urgency.

There will be a counterweight to the "not in my backyard" phenomena, every time we try to actually place a mental health facility or a supportive housing or an affordable housing, uh, development in any particular neighborhood.

Now, because it's all bottom-up and there is no legal requirement, the reasons not to do more for people, the reasons not to build more affordable housing, over time, went out... [Rob] Yeah.

[Mayor Steinberg] ...over the... the human imperative to do better by people who are just human beings, plus the impact, of course, on our neighborhoods, our business corridors, and the... the effect of... of homelessness on our... on our larger community.

But you just nailed it when you said the "human" element to this, and I feel- and as I look out of my window, I can see people walking by and literally stepping over people who are in the middle of a mental health crisis.

Well, of course we do.

And I guess my question to you is- You know, when we go to the doctor, they... they ask, "OK, what's your family history?"

and we talk all about our physical, uh, ailments, but we never talk about our family's histories, if we know them, when it comes to mental health challenges.

Um, I sat down both my grandmothers and they told me everything about our entire family's- as much as they knew- mental health, um, issues over time.

It helped me a lot into the window on my world.

But that's just one person.

We all need to know the human element of what people are going through.

And I ask you, what would you say- You know, go back to your law school day when you had that letter that said, "Hey, we have the funds.

Build this ramp."

And they said they don't want to see it because of the way it looked, whatever.

What would you say, now, to people about what we can do to truly help make a difference, instead of stepping over, step into?

Well, we have to start with recognizing the humanity of people.

You know, "but for the grace of God, there go I."

Uh, homelessness is the most visible manifestation, in many instances, of untreated mental illness.

But as far as I'm concerned, we are all on the spectrum.

All of us!

And if COVID has not brought that out to a, uh, you know, to a fact, then people are in real denial.

Because if... if one has not suffered from some degree of anxiety or depression during this period- I know I have- [Rob] I have to, and the more you ignore it, it will grow.

...then they are not telling the truth.

And so, it's, first, to acknowledge that we're all- we all suffer, and... and that there's no shame because when you bust through the shame, you have a better chance of busting through the discrimination.

When you bust through the discrimination, then the laws have a better chance of being changed.

Uh, and... and that's where I go back to the right to treatment.

This should be a legal right.

It's not, um, in many instances.

It's... it's very haphazard experience and frustrating experience for people and, especially- even people with means, or people who know the system, to navigate the system.

And, um, there's a lot of work being done and needs to continue to happen, to end this fragmentation.

You shouldn't have to have a certain insurance card, or have a certain status one way or another, in order to get the help, especially when you are in crisis.

But the system is still fragmented.

We've got private insurance.

We've got, um, Medicaid.

We've got public systems like the Mental Health Services Act, Prop 63.

We've got schools.

And then, of course, we have jails and prisons.

I want to say this about the morality of a situation.

I have sat with people who are on the street, who are experiencing homelessness, and I've seen the difference of someone who desperately wants and needs the services, and you can connect them with the services, versus someone who cannot, um, comprehend that they need the services.

And it's- And then you see this write off as, oh, they're just, quote, "crazy."

All right.

So, we replace that with- I think so much of this is replacing it with different mental images, to help break the stigma.

You would not walk away from a cancer patient.

You would not walk away from a person who was in the middle of having a stroke.

Or, equate this to a hike.

Um, say your entire block is going on a hike- right?

- and you immediately know everyone comes to this hike with different tools.

Some people won't even have shoes for the hike.

So, it's like, when you replace the stigma of what is there for people on the street, and replace it with something possibly even positive, you realize that the playing field is filled with potholes that are killing people.

There's no question about it.

Beautifully put.

I mean, you're right.

That imagery is so important because you talk about someone having a stroke.

My example was somebody who looked like you and me, who was bleeding... [Rob] Yeah.

It's the same.

It is the same thing.

And yet, I think it is important to acknowledge that people are frustrated by the social condition.

They are.

And because- [Rob] Yes, but frustration, in turn, leads to it growing, and not doing something about it.

[Mayor Steinberg] Well, exactly.

And what I, you know, continue to advocate for is let's not substitute understandable frustration for lack of thought leadership and thoughtfulness, because enforcement has its place.

I don't not believe that people- First of all, I think we should come down hard on people selling drugs and... and preying on, uh, people on the streets who are already vulnerable.

And I don't think it's a civil right to be able to live in a tent anywhere that you want, but enforcement, alone, um, is nothing but Whac-A-Mole, um, and, uh, sometimes, inhumane and... and mostly ineffective.

It has to be combined with, um, dramatically increasing our capacity on shelter, housing and mental health care and treatment, so that we can offer people a... a dignified, uh, and real way out of their situation.

Everybody's got a different story.

But, you know, at the root of this- let's really be honest about it- it's poverty.

It's people who are struggling in one mighty way or another, and one thing leads to another.

It's that old no money in the savings account, high medical bill, broken down car, rent increase, one life event and you find yourself from, uh, living housed but fragile, to being unsheltered and, uh, and then beginning that terrible, uh, experience where if it is not- there's not intervention early, then it's just a downward cycle.

And, um, and we can and must do better.

Where do you find hope?

Where do you, yourself, find hope?

I find hope in two ways.

Uh, one, in my, um, adult lifetime working on these sorts of issues, I have seen and met people who were given up for dead, who are now healthy, stable, and who are now giving back by helping others who were in their situations.

That's inspiring to me.

[Rob] Mmhmm.

And secondly, I have to maintain hope on the public policy front, that we are making, uh, strides, albeit, way too slowly.

Whether it's beginning to make progress on this idea that housing, shelter and mental health care needs to be some form of a legal right and a legal obligation for people to accept, whether it's what we're doing here, locally, to try and, I think, ultimately succeed in forging, uh, a real partnership with the county around resources, around, uh, uh, uh, roles and responsibilities, so that we can get to thousands of additional people who need the help, provide relief to them and to our entire community.

So, uh, can never lose hope, Rob.

First of all, we're out helping people every day.

We just have to help more people.

And we have to provide relief to our... our... our larger community, because this... this status quo is not what any of us should ever accept, and I never will.

If humanity continues to turn the other way, there will be no direction to eventually turn.

I...I completely agree with you.

It... it starts with the humanity seeing, and... and, really, no matter what your faith is, or if you have no formal faith at all, to understand the basics that, "but for the grace of God, there go I."

But for, uh, my lucky breaks in life, who knows what my path would have been?

But for a luckier break from somebody who's out on the street, who had every good intention and... and... and, um, and desire for the same things we all want, uh, their path may have been different.

It's not that we should accept or tolerate bad behavior or illegal conduct, but we must force ourselves to distinguish between those who are victimizing others and those who are victims, themselves.

Instead of it being lumped together.

And... and... and to not... and to not lump them together.

No.

I cannot thank you enough for your time.

I know that you had a packed day, and we went twice as long as I promised.

I am so sorry.

You're not sorry.

I could go another hour, Rob.

This... this is- I mean, I can tell- and you and I always see each other in passing and all, but- even this interview, I could just- I know what's in your heart, man.

And, um- [Rob] It is in my heart, because I tell you this- I believe that there is no difference, except for pure luck and surrounded by family that picked me up when I was down, that keeps me from being someone who would have been right there on the street as well.

God bless you, man, and thank you for sharing.

We, you know- You're a human being, and you... and you've got, now, a powerful platform to... to continue to educate people.

We have to be a little bit nicer to one another.

Each one has to reach one.

Each one.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

♪♪ Murphy Austin Adams Schoenfeld, LLP, focusing on business law and commercial litigation, is proud to support Rob on the Road - Region Rising.

More information available at murphyaustin.com.