[MUSIC] >> Cari Stein: HELLO AND WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY", A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

I AM CARI STEIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF THE PROGRAM, SITTING IN FOR BONNIE ERBE.

TODAY, WE HAVE A TREAT.

WE ARE SPEAKING WITH KITT SHAPIRO, LEGENDARY, ICONIC IRCA EARTH KITT'S DAUGHTER.

SHE RECENTLY WROTE ABOUT A BOOK ABOUT THEIR SPECIAL MOTHER DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP AND IT IS CALLED EARTHA & KITT.

WELCOME, KITT.

NICE TO MEET YOU.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TO DISCUSS YOUR BOOK AND TO DISCUSS YOUR MOM.

LET'S START OFF WITH WHY IS IT -- WHY DID YOU WRITE THE BOOK?

>> Kitt Shapiro: YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING AND I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS NOW, OBVIOUSLY, IN THE RECENT PAST, BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE -- I AM THE WAY MY MOTHER'S VOICE STAYS ALIVE AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PUBLIC PERSONA OF EARTHA KITT BECAUSE THAT WILL ALWAYS LIVE ON WITH MUSIC AND FILM AND TELEVISION IN PERPETUITY.

BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT THE PERSON WHO WAS OF THE EARTH.

EARTHA WAS HER GIVEN NAME AND SHE WILL TRULY WAS OF THE EARTH.

AND SHE WAS SUCH A UNIQUE PERSON IN AN INCREDIBLY GROUNDED INDIVIDUAL.

AND I THINK THAT I JUST FELT WITH ALL OF THE NOISE THAT'S GOING ON IN OUR WORLD RIGHT NOW, THAT TO REALLY SEE WHO SHE WAS AND TO LEARN THESE LESSONS THAT SHE IMPARTED TO ME AND TO THE PEOPLE THAT SHE CAME IN CONTACT WITH, I FELT THAT THE TIMING WAS JUST RIGHT.

>> Cari Stein: WELL, SHE HAS A STORY, AND INTERESTING, YOU KNOW, BACKSTORY JUST ABOUT HER LIFE THAT I DON'T THINK MOST PEOPLE KNOW, AND CERTAINLY ANYONE I HAVE MENTIONED THAT WE WERE GOING TO DO THIS INTERVIEW SAID TO ME, I HAD NO IDEA.

SO TELL US, TELL US ABOUT HER UPBRINGING AND WHERE SHE CAME FROM AND HOW SHE CAME TO BE EARTHA KITT.

>> Kitt Shapiro: MY MOTHER WAS BORN IN 1927, IN A LITTLE TOWN CALLED NORTH SOUTH CAROLINA.

SHE WAS BORN ON A COTTON PLANTATION BACK TO THE DAYS SHE DIED.

SHE SAID, I'M JUST A COTTON PICKER FROM THE SOUTH.

THAT'S HOW SHE SAW HERSELF.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE SHE FELT SHE BROUGHT AUTHENTICITY TO THE CHARACTER SHE BROUGHT TO THE STAGE, I THINK PEOPLE FELT WHEN.

WHEN MY MOTHER WAS BORN IN 1927, IN THOSE YEARS, SHE WAS REFERRED TO AS A YELLOW GAL BECAUSE SHE WASN'T DARK ENOUGH FOR THE COMMUNITY THAT SHE LIVED IN IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

AND HER MOTHER GAVE HER AWAY WHEN SHE WAS VERY YOUNG, BECAUSE HER MOTHER WENT TO MARRY A MAN, A BLACK MAN WHO SAID THAT I WON'T HAVE THAT YELLOW GAL IN MY HOUSE.

MY MOTHER'S BIRTH FATHER, THE IDENTITY, SHE NEVER KNEW.

SHE NEVER KNEW WHO HE WAS.

IT WAS ASSUMED HE WAS A WHITE MAN BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF HER SKIN, BUT WE NEVER FOUND OUT HIS IDENTITY.

SO SHE STARTED OFF, YOU KNOW, ON THIS PLANET BEING TREATED BY THE COMMUNITY THAT SHE WAS BORN INTO.

SHE WAS, YOU KNOW, NOT ACCEPTED BY.

AND OVERSIGHT BY SOCIETY, SHE WASN'T ACCEPTED BECAUSE SHE WAS A BLACK WOMAN.

SO SHE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS HAD THIS ISSUE WITH THIS DESIRE THAT PEOPLE HAVE OF PIGEONHOLING AND CATEGORIZING AND THE NEED TO PUT US IN CATEGORIES AND SAY, YOU ARE A SPECIFIC ETHNIC GROUP, YOUR SPECIFIC PHRASE, YOU ARE A SPECIFIC RELIGION, YOU ARE A SPECIFIC GENDER.

WHATEVER IT IS THAT WE FEEL AS A SOCIETY THAT WE HAVE TO CONFORM ANOTHER PERSON TO, SHE FELT SHE NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT.

IT KEEPS US SEPARATE, SHE FELT.

IT KEEPS US FROM ACCEPTING EACH OTHER AS LONG AS WE KEEP EACH OTHER IN SEPARATE BOXES.

AND SHE ALSO DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN MISTREAT LITTLE, YOU KNOW, AS SHE REFERRED TO HERSELF AS URGENT BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF HER SKIN, WHICH THEY -- NOBODY HAS CONTROL OVER THAT, THEN THAT TREATMENT THAT HUMANS, YOU KNOW, PAID TO EACH OTHER WAS JUST INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO HERHE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT.

SO WHAT I FIND SO INTERESTING AND WHY HE WROTE THE BOOK AND THE BOOK IS CALLED A DAUGHTER'S LOVE STORY IN BLACK AND WHITE.

AND THE REASON THAT WE TITLED IT THAT WAY WAS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY MY MOTHER AND I LOOKED VERY DIFFERENT.

MY SKINTONE, MY HAIR, THEY CLEARLY DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, HER SAME SKINTONE AND HAIR.

THAT BEING SAID, I'M HER BIOLOGICAL CHILD.

BUT YET HERE I AM IN THE YEAR 2021 AND I GET PEOPLE ON SOCIAL MEDIA LITERALLY SAYING TO ME YOUR MOTHER CLEARLY LIE TO YOU.

YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY BE HER, HER BIOLOGICAL CHILD.

YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY ADOPTED.

IN I THINK BACK TO HOW I WAS BROUGHT UP, AND I JUST -- IT IS SO UNFORTUNATE THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LOOK LIKE ANOTHER PERSON THINKS THEY SHOULD LOOK OR SHOULD BEHAVE OR SHOULD BE, WE WANT TO DENY THEIR EXISTENCE.

YOU KNOW?

IT'S LIKE, I CAN'T BE HER DAUGHTER BECAUSE YOU DON'T THINK I LOOK LIKE I SHOULD LOOK.

WHEN I SAY I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER GENETICS AND ACTUALLY DO LOOK A LOT LIKE MY MOTHER, IF YOU CAN GET PAST THE FACT THAT OUR SKINTONE IS DIFFERENT.

I DO LOOK INCREDIBLY LIKE MY MOTHER.

SO I JUST THINK IT IS A GREAT WAY TO KEEP THESE TOPICS COMING.

THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT THE SILLINESS OF TREATING EACH OTHER DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE LOOK, I THINK WE JUST NEED TO KEEP THOSE VOICES ALIVE.

>> Cari Stein: AND SHE CALLED YOU -- SHE SAID YOU ARE LIKE THE UNITED NATIONS.

SHE LOVED THE FACT THAT YOU COULDN'T REALLY PUT THE TWO OF YOU AND BOXES.

BUT SHE WAS ALSO PART CHEROKEE.

>> Kitt Shapiro: YES.

SHE WAS MIXED.

SHE WAS PART CHEROKEE, AFRICAN-AMERICAN, AND MOST LIKELY, AS I SAID EARLIER, HER FATHER WAS PROBABLY A WHITE MAN.

AND SHE WOULD SAY TO ME, SHE WOULD SAY, YOU ARE LIKE A WALKING UNITED NATIONS.

YOU EITHER BREAK EVERY ROLE OR YOU FILL EVERY CODE.

AND SHE LOVED THAT!

SHE LOVE THAT YOU COULDN'T REALLY IDENTIFY EXACTLY WHAT MY ETHNIC BACKGROUND WAS, YOU KNOW?

THAT SHE FELT WAS HOW YOU STOP THIS WILL STEREOTYPING OF INDIVIDUALS AND HOW THEY GET PAST THAT.

I THINK THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE TO TAKE A DNA TEST AND WE SHOULD ALL SEE FROM THE DAY THAT WE ARE BORN, WE SHOULD ALL LEARN HOW MIXED WE ALL ARE AND LET'S JUST GET OVERCOME THE ONE-PIECE AND GET ONTO OTHER THINGS.

THERE'S SO MANY OTHER THINGS IN HIS WORLD THAT WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT.

>> Cari Stein: WELL, AND IN MANY WAYS, BECAUSE YOUR MOTHER HAD ALREADY BECOME A STAR- - >> Kitt Shapiro: RIGHT.

>> Cari Stein: BY THE TIME THAT YOU WERE BORN.

>> Kitt Shapiro: YES, YES.

>> Cari Stein: YOU HAD INTERESTING EXPERIENCES BECAUSE OF THAT WHEN OTHERS WERE NOT GOING TO SOUTH AFRICA.

>> Kitt Shapiro: RIGHT, RIGHT.

MY MOTHER -- >> Cari Stein: TALK ABOUT THAT> Kitt Shapiro: RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING, BECAUSE PEOPLE ASK ME, YOU KNOW, HOW DID YOU IDENTIFY?

WHAT RACE DID YOU IDENTIFY?

MY MOTHER NEVER ALLOWED THAT.

SHE BROUGHT ME UP -- WE WERE PART OF THE HUMAN RACE, WE WEREN'T PART OF A SPECIFIC ETHNIC RACE.

WE WERE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER ON THIS PLANET AND WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO LIVE IN HARMONY AND ACCEPT EACH OTHER AND HAVE EMPATHY FOR EACH OTHER.

IN 1974, '73, '74, MY MOTHER DECIDED TO PERFORM IN SOUTH AFRICA DURING APARTHEID.

A LOT OF ARTIFICE WERE BOYCOTTING SOUTH AFRICA.Y MOTHER FELT THAT ARTISTS, THOUGH, WERE THE TRUE -- HAD THE ABILITY TO BREAK BARRIERS BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE TO ABIDE BY DIPLOMATIC RULES.

SO THEY COULD GO AND AFFECT CHANGE.

SO WHEN SHE TOOK ON THE ENGAGEMENT, SHE INSISTED THAT SHE PERFORM FOR MIXED-RACE AUDIENCES AND WE WERE ALSO RAISING MONEY TO BUILD SCHOOLS FOR AFRICAN CHILDREN.

NOW, THAT BEING SAID, MY MOTHER WENT THERE.

SHE HAD VIP STATUS.

SHE WAS NOT BOUND BY THE RULES OF APARTHEID.

AND, YOU KNOW, SO SHE WAS ALLOWED TO GO TO PLACES THAT WERE TECHNICALLY, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, WHITE ONLY FACILITIES.

BUT WHAT WAS VERY INTERESTING, AND I HAD GROWN UP AND TRAVELED THE WORLD ALREADY IN MY LIFE, BUT I NEVER THOUGHT OF MY MOTHER AS -- AND I BE DIFFERENT.

SHE WAS MY MOTHER.

WE HAD SIMILAR BIRTHMARKS.

AS A LITTLE GIRL, YOU WANT TO POINT OUT THE SIMILARITIES YOU HAVE WITH YOUR MOTHER.

BUT WHEN WE WERE IN SOUTH AFRICA, THERE WAS ONE.

.

I THE SITUATION RIGHT ONTO WITH AMUSEMENT PARK WITH A TUTOR THAT I HAD TRAVELED WITH AND I LOVE THIS AMUSEMENT PARK AND I WANT MY MOTHER TO COME TO ENJOY IT.

WHEN THEY SHE DID, SHE WAS OFF FROM WORK.

AND A GENTLEMAN WHO WORKED THERE CAME UP TO HER AND SAID, MOTHER, EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU EUROPEAN?

AND SHE SAID, NO, AMERICAN.

HE SAID, NO, I MEAN, ARE YOU COLORED?

AND SHE LOOKED AT HER SKIN AND SHE SAID, I GUESS IF YOU CALL THIS COLOR, THEN YES, I'M COLOR.

AND HE SAID, WELL, I'M AFRAID THIS IS A WHITES ONLY PARK, SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE.

SO MY MOTHER STOOD UP AND TOOK MY HAND AND SHE WENT TO LEAVE THE PARK VERY CALMLY.

AND I AS A YOUNG GIRL SAYING TO HER, TELL THEM WHO YOU ARE.

YOU KNOW, TELL YOU WHOM YOU'RE ALLOWED TO BE HERE.

YOUR VIP, YOUR CELEBRITY HONORED.

SHE SAID TO ME, DON'T PANIC.

GOD MAY NOT BE THERE WHEN YOU WANT HIM, BUT HE'S ALWAYS ON TIMEN A FEW DAYS LATER, MY MOTHER WAS DOING A PRESS CONFERENCE AND THEY WANTED TO PHOTOGRAPH AND THE MUSEUM AMUSEMENT PARK HAPPENED TO BE IN THE BACKGROUND.

SHE SAID, OH, YOU KNOW, IT'S A FUNNY I WAS THROWN OUT OF THE AMUSEMENT PARK THE OTHER DAY AND OF COURSE THE PASTA PICTURES AND THEY MADE A BIG DEAL.

AND THE OWNER OF THE PARK WAS UPSET AND EMBARRASSED AND CONTACTED MY MOTHER AND SAID, HOW CAN I MAKE IT UP TO YOU?

AND SHE SAID TO HIM, WELL, WE ARE RAISING MONEY TO BUILD THESE SCHOOLS, SO DONATION WOULD BE MOST, YOU KNOW, APPRECIATED.

AND MY DAUGHTER WOULD REALLY LIKE TO COME WITH HER FRIENDS.

SO HE SENT US TICKETS, WE WENT BACK TO THE AMUSEMENT PARK AND MY MOTHER BROUGHT A BUNCH OF KIDS WERE ALL MIXED RACES, THIS NETIQUETTE DID ALL DIFFERENT ETHNIC BACKGROUNDS.

SEE, THAT TO ME WAS THE PERSON SHE WAS.

MY MOTHER UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE IS A WAY TO AFFECT CHANGE WITHOUT NECESSARILY MAKING A SCENE THE MOMENT, WHICH IS WHAT I WOULD'VE DONE.

AS A CELEBRITY, IF I HAD BEEN, I WOULD'VE MADE A BIG SCENE AND SAID HE I'M ALLOWED TO BE HERE AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

BUT MY MOTHER KNEW SOMEHOW THEY WOULD BE PRESENTED THE SITUATION THAT WOULD HAVE MORE IMPACT OR MAYBE SHE DID NOT KNOW IT, BUT SHE THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE.

AND THAT TO ME, THESE STORIES THAT I PARLAY IN THIS BOOK ARE THE ONES REALLY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE THEY SHOW THE STRENGTH OF THIS WOMAN WHO NEVER COMPROMISE HERSELF OR ANYBODY ELSE, WHO FOLLOWED HER GUT AND HER HEART.

IN THE INCREDIBLE STRENGTH THAT THAT TOOK OF THE HUMAN BEING AND A SINGLE WOMAN, A MOTHER, A SINGLE MOTHER AT THAT, TO LIVE HER LIFE TRULY THAT WAY, I THINK IT'S PRETTY IMPRESSIVE.

>> Cari Stein: AND THE TWO OF YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE VERY CLOSE.

YOU TRAVELED WITH HER ALL OF THE TIME.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE IDEA OF HAVING CELEBRITIES BEING POLITICALLY ACTIVE, IT IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

THERE ARE THOSE WHO LIKE IT, THOSE WHO DON'T, OBVIOUSLY, WHO ARE AGAINST ABOUT.

YOU JUST GO SAY GO TO YOUR CRAFT, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD.

BUT SHE REALLY TOOK THAT SERIOUSLY AND IT HURT HER.

THERE WAS A POINT THAT IT ACTUALLY IMPACTED HER CAREER DURING THE VIETNAM WAR.

>> Kitt Shapiro: YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY YOU SAY THAT, BECAUSE SHE TOOK IT SERIOUSLY, BUT SHE TOOK IT SERIOUSLY NOW BECAUSE SHE WAS A CELEBRITY, SHE TOOK IT SERIOUSLY BECAUSE SHE FELT SHE LIVED IN A COUNTRY WHERE SHE HAD A RIGHT TO SPEAK HER MINDND A VAST HER OPINION THAT SOMEBODY ACTUALLY WANTED TO HEAR WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY.

SO SHE THOUGHT OF IT AS A VERY, YOU KNOW, SIMPLISTIC SITUATION, SHE HAPPENED TO HAVE BEEN A FAMOUS PERSON, INVITED TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

WHEN THE LADYBIRD AND PRESIDENT JOHNSON WAS IN POWER, LADYBIRD JOHNSON HAD A LUNCHEON AND MY MOTHER WAS ASKED HER OPINION ON THE JUVENILE DELINQUENCY IN THE STREETS OF AMERICA AT THE TIME.

AND SHE STOOD UP AND SHE FELT THAT IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH OUR INVOLVEMENT IN VIETNAM, AND THAT THE YOUNG MAN DID NOT AGREE, THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DID NOT AGREE WITH OUR INVOLVEMENT IN VIETNAM.

NOW, SHE DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHY SUCH A HUGE DEAL WAS MADE AFTER THE FACT.

SHE SAYS IN THE MOMENT, THERE WASN'T ANY TRUST IN THE LUNCHEON, IN THE DINING HALL, AND THERE WASN'T, YOU KNOW, THERE WASN'T A BIG CAST WHEN SHE SAID SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT SURPRISING.

IT WAS AFTER THE FACT AND IT WAS LIKE AS PRESIDENT JOHNSON HIMSELF WHO DID NOT LIKE WHAT SHE SAID AND TOOK IT VERY PERSONALLY, I GUESS UNDERSTANDABLY.

SO, YES, HE SINGLE-HANDEDLY GAVE THE ORDER TO FIND WHATEVER YOU CAN FIND ON THAT WILL WOMAN, THERE WAS A CIA DOSSIER ON MY MOTHER, WHICH WE FOUND -- SEYMOUR HERSH CALLED MY MOTHER WHEN WATERGATE BROKE AND TOLD HER THAT THERE WAS A DOSSIER ON HER.

THE FBI HAD BEEN SENT TO INVESTIGATE TO SEE IF SHE WAS A COMMUNIT OR ANTI-AMERICAN.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS YEARS LATER AFTER THAT HAPPENED.

BUT DURING THAT TIME, SHE WAS BASICALLY PUT OUT OF WORK IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE OF THAT.

>> Cari Stein: WHAT A STORY!

HERE WAS THIS YOUNG WOMAN WHO HAD EVERYTHING GOING AGAINST HER.

SHE GREW UP SO POOR.

YOU KNOW, YOU TELL THE STORY OF HER GROWING UP TO NEW YORK AND ALL SHE -- EVERYTHING SHE IS WEARING, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL SHE HAS, HOW SHE MADE THAT TRANSITION TO FAME AND TO USING WHAT SHE HAD TO USING HER TALENTS.

>> Kitt Shapiro: RIGHT.

>> Cari Stein: WHAT WAS THAT LIKE FOR HER?

>> Kitt Shapiro: I THINK THAT SHE UNDERSTOOD THAT YOU JUST KEEP PUTTING ONE FOOT IN FRONT OF THE OTHER, RIGHT, AS SIMPLE AS THAT, THAT EVERY DAY YOU WAKE UP, SHE WAS VERY ABLE OF UNDERSTANDING THE IMPORTANCE, EVERY DAY SHE WOULD SAY THANK YOU FOR MY EYESIGHT, MY HEARING, YOU KNOW, THE BASIC THINGS THAT WE ARE BLESSED WITH AS HUMAN BEINGS, IF WE ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE OUR HEALTH.

AND WE OPEN UP OUR EYES EVERY DAY.

SHE WOULD GIVE THANKS EVERYDAY.

AND THEN SHE UNDERSTOOD THAT HUMANS HAVE THIS ABILITY TO BETTER THEMSELVES, AND IF WE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT AND THE OPPORTUNITIES, THE DOORS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT OPEN, THAT SHE WAS ABLE TO DO THAT, WHICH I THINK THAT IT WAS BASICALLY HER INSTINCT, HER SURVIVAL INSTINCT.

SHE WAS A FIGHTER.

SHE WAS A SURVIVOR.

AND SHE UNDERSTOOD THAT IF A DOOR OPENS A LITTLE BIT, YOU JUST KEEP MOVING FORWARD AND YOU JUST GO AND YOU KEEP GOING.

AND WHEN SHE WAS PRESENTED WITH AN OPPORTUNITY IN NEW YORK CITY TO AUDITION FOR A DANCE COMPANY, THE CATHERINE DUNHAM DANCE GROUP, WHICH SHE TOOK ON A DARE, A FRIEND OF HERS DARED HER TO GO AND AUDITION, SHE TOOK THE DARE.

AND IF SHE GREW UP -- WHEN SHE CAME UP FROM THE SOUTH TO AN AUNT WHO BROUGHT HER UP FROM THE SOUTH BECAUSE SHE WAS BEING SO MISTREATED THAT THIS AUNT HAD BEEN ALERTED THAT SHE NEEDED TO GET THIS LITTLE GIRL OUT OF THE SOUTH, PEOPLE WERE GOING TO KILL HER JUST FOR WHICH HE STOOD, THE ONTO LIVED IN SPANISH HARLEM, MY MOTHER WOULD TALK ABOUT THE SOUNDS OF THE CITY.

YOU KNOW, THE SOUNDS OF MUSIC IN THE STREETS AND PEOPLE, MOVEMENT.

AND EVEN THE SOUNDS OF THE SUBWAYS AND THE TRAINS AND JUST THE BASIC RHYTHM OF LIFE, THAT SHE SORT OF KNEW TO MOVE WITH THAT.

SO WHEN SHE WENT TO AUDITION FOR THIS DANCE TROUPE, SHE JUST FOLLOWED THE TEACHER AND SHE HAD THIS NATURAL ABILITY.

AND THAT WON HER A SCHOLARSHIP TO THE SCHOOL OF CATHERINE DUNHAM DANCE SCHOOL AND SHE ENDED UP JOINING THE VALET COMPANY LATER, AND THAT IS HOW SHE ENDED UP LEAVING NEW YORK AND TRAVELING THE WORLD, STARTED HER TRAVELS AROUND THE WORLD WITH THAT DANCE COMPANY.

> Cari Stein: YOU HAD QUITE A UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR MOTHER.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU TO BE, YOU KNOW, FIRST THE DAUGHTER OF THIS FAMOUS WOMAN AND ALWAYS WITH HER, BECAUSE YOU TRAVELED WITH HER, AND THEN HER MANAGER?

HOW DID YOU MAKE THE TRANSITION?

>> Kitt Shapiro: WELL, AS AN ONLY CHILD, AND, YOU KNOW, I HAD TO CARRY HER NAME, SHE WOULD OFTEN INTRODUCE US AND SAY I AM EARTHA AND THIS IS KITT, AS IF I COMPLETED HER SOMEHOW.

I THINK IN MANY WAYS I DID.

HAD THE RESIST FOUNDATION THAT SHE YEARNED FOR, THIS FAMILY SHE YEARNED FOR, THIS LEVEL THIS THAT SHE WANTED THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE -- WHEN YOU HAVE AN UPBRINGING WITH A DIFFICULT TIME AS A YOUNG CHILD, YOU CARRY THAT DISCOMFORT WITH YOU A LOT AND I THINK SHE YEARNED FOR STABILITY.

AND I GAVE HER BACK, GIVING BIRTH TO ME -- MY PARENTS DIVORCED WHEN I WAS VERY YOUNG, BUT I WAS REALLY HER STRENGTH.

AND I FELT EVEN A LITTLE GIRL, SOMEHOW INSTINCTIVELY I KNEW THAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HER DAUGHTER.

I USED TO SAY TO HER, YOU KNOW, GOD PUT ME HERE SO THAT I COULD BE YOUR DISH THAT SHE WOULD BE MY MOMMY AND I WOULD BE YOUR DAUGHTER.

AND I THINK THAT OUR ENTIRE LIVES TOGETHER, I SORT OF WAS REALLY GOOD AT BEING THAT PERSON TO HER, BEING HER, I DON'T WANT TO SAY SECOND BANANA, BECAUSE I WAS THE CENTER OF HER LIFE, AND SHE WAS COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY DEVOTED TO ME.

AND ANYBODY WHO SPOKE TO HER ABOUT OR HEARD HER SPEAK ABOUT ME WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT.

SHE WAS A MOTHER FIRST, FIRST AND FOREMOST.

SO I DO THINK THAT WE HAVE THAT UNIQUE CONNECTION, THAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THAT WAY, AND WE WERE BLESSED TO HAVE HAD IT.

WE ALSO BOTH KNEW THAT DURING OUR LIVES TOGETHER.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I CAME TO AFTER SHE LEFT FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS OF HER LIFE.

WE BOTH LIVED OUR LIVES LIKE THAT.

THAT BEING SAID, WE HAD A VERY TYPICAL MOTHER-DAUGHTER RELATIONSHIP.

THIS WAS NOT -- THERE WERE SOME ROCKY TIMES IN OUR LIVES.

I ROLLED MY EYES LIKE A TYPICAL TEENAGER.

YOU KNOW, DRIVING DOWN THE STREET, SHE WOULD BE DOING FACIAL EXERCISES IN THE CAR AND I WOULD BE MORTIFIED AND WOULD HOPE THE DOOR WOULD JUST OPEN AND SHE WOULD JUST ROLLOUT OR, YOU KNOW, SHE WOULD TELL ME TO DO SOMETHING I WOULD NOT WANT TO DO IT.

YOU KNOW, WE WERE MOTHER-DAUGHTER.

BUT YET, THAT'S JUST LIFE, THAT'S JUST WHAT IT IS.

YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE ALL OF THOSE SIDES OF HUMAN BEINGS AND WE WERE VERY LUCKY TO KNOW THAT WE HAD THIS INCREDIBLE CONNECTION AND THAT WAS A TRULY BLESSING.

>> Cari Stein: WERE YOU ABLE TO HAVE ANY SORT OF TYPICAL, LIKE, CHILDHOOD, FRIENDSHIPS?

BECAUSE IF YOU ARE TRAVELING A LOT, I KNOW THERE WAS AT THE POINT WHERE SHE DID NOT WANT TO TRAVEL, RIGHT?

>> Kitt Shapiro: I DO NOT WANT TO TRAVEL ANYMORE.

THEN SHE WAS STILL TRAVELING BECAUSE THAT'S HOW SHE MADE HER LIVING, RIGHT?

ESPECIALLY WHEN IT WASN'T MUCH WORK HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AFTER THE WHITE HOUSE INCIDENT, SHE TOURED THE WORLD.

LUCKILY SHE HAD AN INTERNATIONAL FAN BASE.

SO WE TRAVELED A LOT AND SHE FELT IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT A PARENT TO HAVE ME WITH HER.

AS A TEENAGER, I DID NOT WANT TO BE DRAGGED OFF TO ANOTHER COUNTRY.

HONESTLY HOME WITH MY FRIENDS.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF GUILT SOMETIMES THAT GOES ALONG WITH BEING, YOU KNOW, A CHILD.

IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING A CHILD OF A FAMOUS PERSON, IT'S ABOUT BEING AN ONLY CHILD OF A SINGLE MOTHER.

AND HOW IT EVOLVED THAT I BECAME, YOU KNOW, WORKING FOR HER, WELL, THAT'S NEPOTISM DOES HAVE ITS PERKS.

YOU KNOW, SHE DID NOT HAVE THE TRUST OF AGENTS AND MANAGERS AND LAWYERS.

SO SHE SAID -- I WAS PREGNANT WITH MY SON, WHO IS NOW 30, AND, YOU KNOW, SHE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT?

YOU SHOULD JUST WORK FOR ME.

WE SHOULD BE STICKING TOGETHER.

IT'S ALL GOING TO BE YOURS ONE DAY ANYWAY, SO YOU MAY AS WELL TAKE IT FROM ME NOW.

SO THAT'S HOW IT SORT OF -- IT WAS REALLY HER IDEA.

IT WASN'T REALLY AN AREA OF EXPERTISE THAT I HAD INTEREST IN OR WANTED TO GO INTO.UT, YOU KNOW, IT WORKS FOR BOTH OF US VERY WELL AND FOR MY FAMILY.

IT WAS A BLESSING.

>> Cari Stein: SO WHAT SORT OF WISDOM CAN YOU OFFER BOTH AS YOUR MOTHER, FROM YOUR MOTHER, FROM YOU AS A MOTHER AND FROM YOU AS A DAUGHTER?

>> Kitt Shapiro: SO I REALLY THINK ONE OF THE BEST THINGS MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME WAS TO HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR AND DO NOT TAKE MYSELF TOO SERIOUSLY, NOT TAKE LIFE TOO SERIOUSLY, BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY BUMPS IN THE ROAD.

CERTAINLY, WE HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS PAST YEAR A WORLD, WE HAVE SEEN BUMPS LIKE WE HAVE NEVER THOUGHT WE WOULD EVER EXPERIENCE.

I THINK MY MOTHER WAS REALLY GOOD AT KNOWING AND SHOWING THAT YOU JUST KIND OF GO WITH THE FLOW.

YOU JUST FOLLOW THE RIVER AS IT WINDS AND YOU HOLD ON TIGHT AND YOU JUST KEEP MOVING FORWARD.

>> Cari Stein: WERE THERE ANY PARTS THAT SHE PLAYED?

ANYTHING THAT REALLY WERE YOUR FAVORITES?

>> Kitt Shapiro: I LOVE HER DISNEY ROLLS.

I THOUGHT HER VOICEOVERS, AND SHE DID A LOT OF THEM AS SHE GOT OLDER, SHE WON EMMIES FOR HER VOICE OF EASE, AND THE EMPEROR'S NEW SCHOOL, THE TELEVISION SERIES, BUT SHE ALSO VOICED THE ROLE IN THE ANIMATED FILM, THE EMPEROR'S NEW GROOVE.

AND STAYING DID THE MUSIC FOR THE EMPEROR'S NEW GROOVE.

SO THAT TO ME, BECAUSE I WAS ALREADY AN ADULT.

I HAD CHILDREN ALREADY.

IT WAS ONE DAY WE WERE SITTING IN STAYING'S APARTMENT AND HE AND MY MOTHER WORKED REHEARSING AND I'M LOOKING AT THE WINDOW AND I'M JUST THINKING, OKAY, THIS IS PRETTY GOOD.

OR I AM LISTENING TO MY MOTHER AND STING.

I MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF A COOL THING.

THEN A FEW DAYS LATER, WE GOT TO HAVE LUNCH WITH COLON POWELL.

THESE ARE NOT RULES THAT SHE DID, BUT THEY WERE OPPORTUNITIES IN MY LIFE THAT I GOT TO MEET PEOPLE THAT WERE INCREDIBLE HUMAN BEINGS AND HAVE AFFECTED CHANGE IN MANY OF THEM WERE IN AWE OF MY MOTHER WHO WAS JUST A MOTHER TO ME, BUT TO THEM SHE WAS A TRAILBLAZER IN AN ICON.

AND THERE I WAS SORT OF ALONG FOR THE RIDE AND VERY HAPPY.

>> Cari Stein: YEAH.

I GUESS YOU MISSED ORSON WELLES AND YOU MISSED JAMES DEAN.

>> Kitt Shapiro: I DID, I DID.

I HEARD THE STORIES OF JAMES DEAN., MOTHER AND JAMES DEAN WERE VERY CLOSE FRIENDS.

PEOPLE ASK ME WHERE THEY ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED, PEOPLE ASKED ME IF MY MOTHER AND ORSON WELLES WERE INVOLVED.

I DON'T KNOWHE SAYS NOT.

I WAS NOT THERE AND CANNOT ATTEST TO IT DON'T KNOW.

SHE CLAIMS THERE WAS NEVER ANY ROMANCE BETWEEN EITHER OF THEM.

BUT SHE FELT VERY, VERY DISH THAT SHE WOULD'VE SAID SIMPATICO WITH THEM, JAMES DEAN.

SHE CALLED HIM JAMIE.

AND SHE TALKED ABOUT THESE INCREDIBLE PEOPLE -- ORSON WELLES, THEY WOULD SIT IN CAFC IN PARIS AND SHE WOULD LISTEN TO THEIR CONVERSATIONS THAT HE HAD WITH ARTISTS AND WRITERS AND OTHER, YOU KNOW, INTELLECTUALS., MOTHER WOULD JUST URINE TO LEARN MORE.

SO THE NEXT DAY, SHE WOULD RUN TO THE LIBRARY AND JUST RESEARCH ON NAMES THAT SHE HAD HEARD.

SO SHE STUDIED.

SHE NEVER FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL, BUT SHE STUDIED ON HER OWN AND SHE WOULD READ ABOUT PHILOSOPHERS AND RELIGIONS AND DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, HISTORIES, BECAUSE SHE FELT THE MORE YOU COULD TEACH YOURSELF, THE MORE NOURISHMENT, WHETHER IT BE FROM FOODS OR KNOWLEDGE, THAT YOU GAVE YOUR BODY, THE RICHER YOU BECAME A HUMAN BEING.

>> Cari Stein: THANK YOU SO MUCH, KITT.

REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

GOOD LUCK WITH THE BOOK!

KEEP ON DOING THE GOOD WORK.

>> Kitt Shapiro: THANK YOU!

I APPRECIATE IT, REALLY DO APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR KINDNESS.

>> Cari Stein: THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TO THE CONTRARY.

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