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Rob: Coming up next on Rob at Home Did you know there are 28 hidden gems in Sacramento County where you can find... Rivkah: ...a ukulele, a pressure washer, a high school diploma, critical thinking, and inspiration.

Rob: The CEO and library director of Sacramento County, Rivkah Sass, is my guest, next, on Rob at Home.

Annc: And now, Rob on the Road - Exploring Northern California.

Rob: I'm thrilled to bring you Rivkah Sass.

Rivkah Sass is the CEO and the library director for Sacramento County.

28 libraries in Sacramento County, and you will not believe the modern library.

Rivkah Sass, good to see you.

Rivkah: Oh, it's great to be here.

Thank you so much.

Rob: Thank you.

And first, I have to say, I am stunned at what you can find inside the public libraries.

This is not the library that you imagine or that anyone imagines, in my opinion, because you're constantly evolving and changing and growing.

You can even rent tools?

Rivkah: You can.

Rob: Or check out tools?

Rivkah: That's right.

You can check out tools, musical instruments, uh, and a whole lot of things in-between.

We want to make those tools available to people who might not otherwise have access to them.

So, we have microscopes, too.

We have other things.

We have so many things that I don't even remember in the library of things, all available with a library card.

Cameras.

Lenses.

Other things.

Ukuleles That's one of my favorites.

Rob: You talked to me about the importance of the library being a universal language of critical thinking where you can learn all sides of the story.

Today, that is so important.

Rivkah: I agree with you.

And I think one of the things that we have forgotten how to do, or maybe, also, still need to learn, is that for every story, there are two sides.

And that's one of the... one of the reasons that I love being a librarian is that we do our best to offer both sides of every story in our libraries.

And we want people to read, to think, to debate, to decide for themselves, but they have to have all the information to do that.

Rob: You're doing a lot to make sure that happens and we're going to get to that as well.

I...

I have to say - we live in a polarized world today, and I also think that that can be changed.

And do you feel that a library is a safe space for someone to go, who may be completely opinionated on one side or the other, and ask questions that they may be afraid to ask anywhere else?

Rivkah: Absolutely.

That is You just asked the best question you could ask me.

We started Rob: Why?

Rivkah: Several years ago, we started having conversations called "Let's Talk About..." for that very reason, the very reason of "How do we have civil conversations?"

How do we engage and have a conversation about race, or gender, or death?

Things that are often taboo.

That's one of the roles that I believe a library can play in a very important way, that we... we get people together.

We offer that opportunity and people come together so that they can do that.

Rob: I want to... to sort of brag about you for a minute, if it's okay, because the things that you are talking about are such a big deal that it caught the attention of the New York Times.

And the New York Times did a national story on you, um, and your approach to being a librarian.

Rivkah: We have to be a literate society and literacy begins at birth.

You know, 90% of a child's brain is developed by the age of five.

So, it doesn't start when you start kindergarten.

To get ready to start kindergarten, you know, parents need We... We call it their five components: talk, sing, read, write play.

And those are all things that the library can help parents discover and do with their children so that they... they are ready to start school and they are, you know, ready to learn.

Think about I think of the brain as, you know, as this flower waiting to open.

And I think of a baby They're a genius.

Think about it.

When a baby's born, think of all the things they have to learn in the first few years of life.

You know, they... they learn to crawl.

They learn to walk.

They learn to talk.

All of those things.

They learn this incredibly complex communication system.

And if we know that we have a role in that as parents, then they're going to be all the more ready for what comes next, and... and that's formal education.

And I am...

I am beyond passionate about what we're doing.

And we, at Sacramento Public Library, you know, we have an... an early learning and development manager.

We have an early learning specialist.

We have librarians, who've gone through specialized training to help with that very thing, because it's so important.

And we have a K-12 specialist to work with the schools.

All of that is shoring up what's available to people in our community and... and I'm really proud of it.

Really, really proud of what we do.

Rob: And if someone has not been in a library recently, just step in the door and you will see what we are talking about.

Um, you've mentioned this a couple of times, so I feel very safe going there with you on this... Rivkah: Okay.

Rob: ...about how personal this is to you.

Um, being a librarian, education, access to education and to books It is so personal to you, that it has taken you around the world.

And you have brought some of that worldly perspective back to Sacramento.

Um, you go and work with refugees.

Talk to me about this journey for you.

Rivkah: Well, it's, like much of life, you know, it's serendipitous and it's It was an accidental journey.

I happened to Rob: These were Syrian refugees.

Rivkah: Syrian refugees.

They're at, uh, Zaatari camp.

It's the largest refugee camp in the world.

There are 82,000 people who live in that camp.

Rob: Out Right outside of Jordan?

Rivkah: It's right outside of, uh It's about an hour and a half north of Amman, Jordan.

It's right on the Syrian border.

Rob: Okay.

Rivkah: And it literally is a couple of miles from the Syrian border.

And, um, it's... it's been an incredible experience for me, learning and meeting... meeting these people whose lives have been so disrupted, who have, now, some of them lived in the camp for nine years.

They've gotten married.

They've had children.

There are children who are eight and nine years old who know nothing except that experience of living in the camp.

But there are libraries.

And being able to go there Rob: There are libraries?

Rivkah: There are libraries.

There are... there are, um Rob: In a refugee camp?

Rivkah: In a refugee camp.

And they are run by refugees.

And it's... it's basically, when you think about it, it's sort of the largest refugee-run library system in the world.

And, um Rob: Wow.

Rivkah: It's amazing.

And there's... there's a woman from the University of Washington, Dr. Karen Fisher, who... who went in and started working with people.

Well, then, I got to go and I've been four times and hope to go back.

And, you know, having... having the opportunity to talk about brain development and early learning, and why it's important to read to your child, and why it's important to sing with your child, and talk with your child, and play with your child All of those things are components to that.

And having that experience has been just incredible.

Starting a book club.

You know, we... we, um I found Jane Eyre in Arabic and English, and being able to... to hand that out to people and say, "Read this.

Talk about this experience.

Talk about her."

These people have been there for so long.

And there are young men who are educated.

There are former professors.

There... there are writers.

There are creative people who are in this space where they don't know if they'll ever get out.

We don't know what the... the... the outcome is going to be.

And they still have hope and they're incredibly resilient.

They have enough hope to get married and have children and try to learn new things, express themselves through their art and, you know, try to make better lives for their children, in spite of where they are.

And that, to me, is the number one learning.

It's that... it's that... being resilient is the most important thing we all can learn.

And, for heaven sakes, what we've learned through, uh, the pandemic, certainly, is that resilience is... is It matters.

And we need to... we need to stay sane and we need to stay hopeful.

And I think that's... that's been an important lesson for me.

Rob: You, um, you've had to learn resilience, yourself, in some very difficult ways.

Um, the loss of your husband, rather unexpected... unexpectedly.

Very unexpectedly, in my opinion.

Rivkah: Yes.

Yes.

And, uh, you know, it's... it's, uh, it's funny because it's been... it's been several years, but, you know, when you spend 40 years of your life with someone and, uh, and then they're not there anymore, and You know, and I think about all the things that... that he's missing and... and all the things that he was better at.

Um, he was, a Abe was a psychiatric social worker with this incredible ability to just talk to people.

And as... as many people told me, he always made them feel that they were the most important person in the room.

And he did have that ability.

And he certainly was my support network.

My rock.

And even though I would get mad at him if I was frustrated about something at work and he would try to problem solve, and I would say, "No, I just need you to listen," he was this incredible human being who... who actually made the world a better place.

And, you know, and... and it's very hard to lose someone in five days, and, you know, as many people have experienced in... in, you know, the last, uh, couple of years, but... but, um You know, I had 40 years and I...

I had a really good and adventuresome life.

So, I have to also remember to be grateful for that.

Rob: Well and I'm grateful that... that you were okay with me bringing that up.

And there's a reason, also, and that is that there are a lot of people in grief... Rivkah: Yes.

Rob: ...now, especially with the pandemic.

And the And grief comes in many forms and many waves.

What can the library do for grief?

And did it do anything for you, with grief?

Rivkah: Well, thank you for asking that.

As a matter of fact, uh, when Abe died, we were in the middle of planning our "Let's Talk About..." series.

We were just launching... launching it.

And, uh, the first program that we had about that was, um, was... was racism.

And it was very powerful and very effective.

The second one was death, and it was just a few months after he died, and we had a chaplain and a... and a woman named Caitlin Doughty who wrote who writes these wonderful books about being a mortician.

And I And there's... there's humor to them, but there's also this true respect for... for what we for understanding death and dying in many cultures.

She's written about that, uh, around the world.

And that actually helped me a lot.

And it taught me, you know, you hear the word "chaplain" and I think, you know, I had a mental model about what a chaplain was.

And then we had a very tragic experience at the library where we had to make use of chaplains and, um, it really It taught me that there are people out there who want to walk you through the process.

I will tell you, also, that reading Joan Didion's book, uh, a year of magical thinking- The Year of Magical Thinking, was a great source of... of support for me, personally.

She went through a very similar experience.

She lost her husband.

She lost a child.

I lost a... a... a child.

He was 27 when he died.

I lost my husband later.

And, you know, again, it's... it's having It's knowing that there are people who share those experiences.

And, honestly, that's where the library can come in because there are resources that help you.

We're really able to get to what they... what they want or what they need.

Rob: Yeah.

Conversations get really deep, very quickly in a library.

Rivkah: Yes, they do!

Rob: They really do.

I've seen it a thousand times and it's... and it's always different, every conversation, and it's always powerful.

You've been there 12+ years.

Rivkah: Exactly.

I have.

Rob: Um, and you've also done a lot.

You've been credited with... with turning around, um, an organization in need and making it successful.

Um, what did that teach you?

Rivkah: Well, I'm going to go back to the word resilience.

But I think, you know, everything is complicated and... and, you know, I...

I was lucky.

I feel so blessed that I got the job in Sacramento and I got to come here during a very difficult time.

And really, you know, I'm a fixer.

My I love to fix things.

I...

I You know, in another life, I would be a mechanic.

I call myself "the tech-savvy grandma."

You know Rob: Go to the library and learn how to do it.

Rivkah: Right?

I love to fix physical things, and the opportunity to do, uh to actually take a large system, with 300 staff at 28 locations, and rebuild our own confidence in who we were, that the, you know, the library, as a system, will be here long after I'm gone.

It was here long before I came here.

And that you can have What I learned was you can have, uh, uh, something bad happen and you can figure out what went wrong and you can move forward.

It's really systems.

You know, it's really thinking about systems.

And that's what I learned.

And I learned that staff want to do a good job and I work with an amazing group of people.

And... and, you know, that, I think, is the most important thing, is that you recognize it you see what went wrong, you recognize it, you do everything you can to fix it, and you move on to the next thing, which for us was "How do we better serve the needs of the community?"

I got here during a recession.

There were a lot of things that we needed to provide to people.

Rob: You know, I'm thinking about you saying these words and I'm remembering how many times I heard "Shhh!"

in a library.

However, what came to my mind just now is that the importance of communication when things go wrong, um, and not to jump to conclusions, but to do your research, to do your searching.

And... and you, you know, as far as a metaphor, and then literally at the library, are the perfect example of... of doing that.

Rivkah: That's... that's very kind of you to say that, and thank you.

And it means a lot because I didn't get into this business because I wanted to do "Shhh!"

I got into this business because I love people.

And, uh, and I love helping people.

And... and I believe that that role of the library is that place where people can help themselves, and sometimes they just need a little help from, you know, from a librarian.

And that, to me, is That's a fortunate thing.

Rob: What matters most to you, Rivkah, in your life?

Um, you have announced that 2022 will... will bring your retirement from the library, but you have also said that you will stay as... as... as long as needed.

But, for all intents and purposes, 2022 is... is your plan, correct?

Rivkah: Correct.

Rob: Um, what matters most to you today?

Rivkah: Today?

Um, today, what matters most to me, personally?

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Rivkah: Well, I'm a grandma.

I have two adorable little grandsons.

That matters.

Family matters because my family is so small.

Uh, my lovely daughter and her... her beautiful family matter to me.

Uh, my work matters to me because I'm coming to the end.

You know, I'm...

I'm...

I'm on that sort of downward slope, recognizing that there are other things in life that I want to accomplish.

And... and what matters to me is wanting to do the best job I can while I'm here and not I'm...

I'm certainly not slacking.

I'm trying to get you know, cram as many things in as I can, but I also want What matters to me is that ability to have some adventures, you know?

I love to travel and... and, um, you know, I joke that I want to go groom donkeys on the Isle of Wight.

There's a donkey sanctuary there.

It's really cool.

Um, I You know, having those having some adventures while I can still have them, that matters to me.

But I think, you know, really, when I think about it from the... the spiritual sense, what matters... what matters to me is that love of my family, the love of my work, and the love of my community.

I love Sacramento.

And, you know, you put that all together and it's incredible.

It's an incredible package.

Rob: You have a perspective, um, and a lens and a view from where you are in life, uh, both with your career and your life experiences.

You have a... a perspective that is incredibly unique.

So, with that said, what must be shared from you to everybody who is watching?

Or anyone watching.

What is it that is the glue, the... the heart of the matter, to you?

Rivkah: Oh, that's such a profound question and I feel so unprofound in trying to answer it.

But honestly, what matters to me is we have this beautiful planet that we all live on, and we have 7 billion people, and what matters to me is that we figure out how to connect with one another so that we both save this beautiful planet, that we take care of one another, and then we try to... try to leave the world a better place than we found it.

And that is... is It... it really does drive me.

And and I'm a little worried about us right now because we're so divided going back to the beginning of the conversation We're so divided and I want us to come together and smile about our differences, be able to talk about them with respect and with love for the humanity that each and every one of us has, and, you know, and then solve problems together.

That's what I would That's I guess that's what matters.

Rob: And you also told me that a library is a place where what you just said you dreamed of can happen, which tells me that you've seen it happen.

Rivkah: Absolutely.

Absolutely.

When I think back on, um, you know I have a long career but when I think back on the time here, and I think about the grandparents who came up to us when we did a program on gender and... and... and shared with us that their seven year old grandchild was... was going through a... a... a, you know, trying to understand who they were as... as, you know, uh, a boy, or a girl, or whatever, you know, in-between.

Um, and when they shared that and said it was so important for them to know that we cared enough to be able to have that conversation, and to be able to talk about it, and to provide that support.

And you know, that... that I love stories like that.

And I've had so many of them in my life where we've made a difference.

So, you know, walking into that library for the first time made a difference in somebodys life, and that matters, too.

Rob: And when you walk out of your job in 2022, what will it have taken to make that difference for you?

Rivkah: Oh, boy.

I think what... what... what it will have taken is knowing that... that we have done the best we can, with under challenging circumstances as a library, and knowing that... that I've been lucky enough to work with amazing people.

And I...

I'm leaving the library at a time when we have this incredible management team.

We have incredible staff.

There's leadership there that I...

I can walk away.

We have great support.

You know, I've got a wonderful library board.

The friends of the library have been incredible.

I could do a whole... whole segment just on the friends and what they have meant in supporting and advocating for the library.

So, all of those things, um, you know, all of those things together.

Rob: That's lovely.

I have to ask you this because I would like to end, uh, on... on a light note Um, many people, when we do zoom interviews, stack their computers on books.

Just curious if yours is on a book, and if it is, what is the book?

Rivkah: How did you guess?

Books are the best.

Um, well, I am not a tall person Rob: And don't pull it out if it really is under there, just read it Rivkah: Yeah, it really is.

Rob: The camera will go all like Rivkah: It's a book that belonged to my son, actually.

It's A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn.

And, um, and it's the perfect height for... for this moment where we could be sort of equal.

Rob: Rivkah, I am...

I am so grateful for knowing you and for spending this time together and, just like a librarian, I leave with so much more knowledge and inspiration and resilience from having spent this time with you, and I thank you for that.

Rivkah: It's been very special.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Rob: Thank you.

Rivkah: Thanks for thinking I was worthy of being with you.

It, really, it touches me.

Thanks.

Rob: Your story, and every single person's story and I don't have to tell a librarian this must be shared because when we share our stories, we set other people free.

And, oddly, ourselves too.

And you've been doing that your whole career.

So, thank you.

Rivkah: Thank you.

Rob: Rivkah Sass, the CEO and the library director for Sacramento County, right here on Rob at Home.

Bye, Rivkah.

Rivkah: Bye, Rob.

Thank you.

♪♪ Annc: Murphy Austin Adams Schoenfeld, LLP, focusing on business law and commercial litigation, is proud to support Rob on the Road: Region Rising.

More information available at murphyaustin.com.