GEOFF BENNETT: In his new book, Bruce# Friedrich argues that the way we produce## meat is unsustainable for the climate,# for public health, and for the planet,## and that the solution isn't eating# less meat, but making it differently.

From lab-grown meat to plant-based alternatives,## he says a food revolution is already under# way, whether consumers realize it or not.

I spoke with him about the book "Meat: How the## Next Agricultural Revolution Will Transform# Humanity's Favorite Food and Our Future."

Bruce Friedrich, welcome to the "News Hour."

BRUCE FRIEDRICH, Author: Thanks#very much, Geoff.

I'm delighted to be here.

GEOFF BENNETT: You open the book by saying -- this## is a quote -- "I'm not here# to tell anyone what to eat."

Why was it important for you to start# there and to focus on how meat is made,## rather than on the personal choice?

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Well, because the environmental# and global health and animal protection## communities have been basically starting# on personal choice for more than 50 years.

And what we have seen is that meat# consumption just keeps going up.## So the U.N.

Food and Agriculture Organization,# they started tracking this in 1961.

And we have## literally hit a new global meat production record# every single year since.

And that's a problem,## because cycling crops through# animals is incredibly inefficient.

It takes nine calories into a chicken to# get one calorie back out in the form of## chicken meat.

It's just a shockingly# inefficient system that has a lot of## negative externalities, negative external costs.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you describe this moment# as the next global agricultural revolution.## What makes this shift comparable# to past revolutions in farming?

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Well, for 12,000 years we have## been growing crops to feed them to# animals, so that we can eat animals.

That is -- after hunting and# gathering, that's how we have## been doing it for 12,000 years.

As I just# mentioned, it's fantastically inefficient,## but it's not just the inefficiency of# growing the crops to feed them to animals.## So, the most efficient animal being the# chicken, and that's 800 percent food waste,## so eight times the land, eight times the water,# eight times the herbicides and pesticides.

You also have to ship all of those crops# to a feed mill, operate the feed mill,## ship the feed to the farm, operate the farm,# ship the animals to the slaughterhouse,## operate the slaughterhouse.

Like, that's a bunch# of extra gas-guzzling, pollution-spewing vehicles,## a bunch of extra factories, which take a lot# of energy and spew out a lot of pollution.

If we can remove the animal from the equation# and give human beings what they love about meat,## because I call it humanity's# favorite food in the subtitle,## that would be really a revolution,# animal meat without the animal.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you may clear that this# will only work if the meat alternative looks,## tastes like, and has a price# point that matches conventional## meat.

Where are we closest on# parity when it comes to that?

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Yes, I mean,# just to underline that point,## like, we started with the idea of# personal choice.

What is absolutely## clear is that people eat meat because# it's delicious and it's affordable.

What's also clear is, whenever there# are more people and the economy grows,## meat production and consumption goes up.

And this# is, like, one of the most consistent findings in## social sciences is that, where food is concerned,# people care, is it delicious and is it affordable?

And then you look at meat production,# meat consumption, pretty much everywhere,## people really love meat.

So that's the# focus.

The products need to be -- they## need to taste the same or better, they need# to cost the same or less.

And that's how you## make plant-based meat and cultivated# meat that can win in the marketplace.

GEOFF BENNETT: I think for people who've# had a Beyond Burger or Impossible Burger,## it tastes close to the real thing,## but not quite.

Do you think we can get to a# point wher.. BRUCE FRIEDRICH: So the last chapter of the book,## chapter 11, I interviewed 30 plant-based meat# scientists and 30 cultivated meat scientists.

And I started with the question, can we get to# plant-based meat, cultivated meat, depending on## the scientist, that is cost-competitive with# and indistinguishable from cheap chicken and## cheap fish sticks?

Because that's -- if you# can get there, you can get everything else.

(LAUGHTER) BRUCE FRIEDRICH: And.. look, if one thing requires nine# times the inputs of something else,## what would be the hurdle to plant fats and# proteins behaving like animal fats and proteins?

What would be the hurdle to growing# actual animal muscle and fat in tanks,## instead of on live animals?

So it's going to take# some time.

It's going to take some innovation.## But 10 years ago, there was no Beyond Burger;# 10 years ago, there was no Impossible Burger.

We have come a pretty long way on both# plant-based meat and cultivated meat in... (SNAP FINGERS) BRUCE FRIEDRICH: ... historically, that long.

GEOFF BENNETT: One of the takeaways in# this book for me was that, as we all know.. consuming meat is deeply cultural.

It's tied to# identity.

It's tied to tradition in many ways,## and that changing production is really easier# and more realistic than changing human behavior.

So you start with changing production.

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Yes, I mean, it# certainly seems to be the case that, I## don't know if it's biological or physiological or# psychological or cultural, but it definitely does## seem to be the case that every place in the world# -- India might be to some degree an exception, but## even in India, meat consumption is up 300 percent# in the last 25 years, still at a pretty low level.

But every place else, the more meat# people can eat, the more meat they eat.## So we're probably not going to change that.

Some# people have been trying for more than 50 years,## and yet meat consumption just# keeps going up.

It's great if## people want to eat less meat or no meat.# But let's add another tool to the toolkit.

It seems really clear that science can make# meat from plants that is indistinguishable.## And it's absolutely the case that science# can grow actual animal meat.

Essentially,## it looks like a brewery.

If you walk into# a cultivated meat production factory,## it looks like a brewery, so a bunch of friendly# neighborhood meat breweries, essentially.

And that, we think, is how you handle# the external costs of meat production.

GEOFF BENNETT: The book is "Meat: How the Next## Agricultural Revolution Will Transform# Humanity's Favorite Food and Our Future."

Bruce Friedrich, founder and president of the Good# Food Institute, a real pleasure to speak with you.

BRUCE FRIEDRICH: Thanks very much, Geoff.# It was a pleasure to speak with you.