♪♪ Kids are back in school after the pandemic.

But what are the long term impacts on our children?

In partnership with the American Leadership Forum, three educational experts share their insights on what they learned during the pandemic and how education will be permanently changed by the experience.

Tiffany, take us back to the first day that you were back in the classroom.

What was that day and that experience like for you and your- and the children you teach?

It was pretty incredible to be back in-person.

It was fun to see our friends, to see them, uh, in the classroom, uh, and- but it was a little strange.

It was a little quiet.

Uh, everybody, uh, of course, was wearing masks.

And so, they had been used to seeing each oth- all of their peers, uh, virtually, uh, without masks.

So, it was, you know, figuring out who was who, when we had our masks on.

But overall, it was just a great sense of joy with people being back, in person, able to see each other and to get back to what they know and love.

And Gayle, you're the superintendent of all of Placer County's schools and I'm curious, when... when everyone was starting to come back- and I know that not everybody started back at the same time- what was going through you and your staff's minds, in terms of really reigniting the educational experience for the children you all serve?

Um, I think it was really important, when the school started to resume in-person instruction, to figure out what learning had taken place, uh, via distanced learning, uh, and where the gaps were in the assessment.

Um, in the... in the beginning, prior to the vaccines, we were really focused on a healthy school environment.

What did a healthy school environment look like?

It had spacing in the classroom.

It had students and staff wearing masks.

It had, um, you know, uh, increased air filtration systems.

So, we put a lot of effort into the operational mechanics of the physical space that the students were in.

But once we conquered those barriers, it was really the educational staff had to figure out where were the kids achieving at that point in time, and was there substantial learning losses?

Or, in some cases, uh, did students maintain their academic progress?

And so, the education staff and the school staff really focused in on that.

And- - What did you find?

What did you find, in terms of that assessment?

Well, we found, um, in Placer County, specifically, that there was learning loss.

There wasn't as much learning loss in the area of English Language Arts, um, as we anticipated.

So, if you look overall, uh, test scores, uh, wise- If we're comparing what our test scores were county-wide before COVID and then the year following COVID, we dropped about five percentage points, which I think everybody was a little, like, surprised.

We were anticipating that it was going to be a... a greater drop.

Where we did see a substan... substantial drop was in, uh, the math scores.

And we... we dropped about 11 points in our county, uh, on... on lath- on math assessments, and so- That sounds significant.

And that, I think, is actually indic... indicative of what was happening statewide.

I mean, maybe not necessarily, um, the... the actual scores, but there was a big difference between the students, uh, attainment and mastery of math skills.

And we would hear that anecdotally from our staff, from our parents, um, and from our schools, and then when the state assessment came out.

And the state assessment was a fraction of what the state assessment used to look like.

So, it was just a small battery assessment.

Um, so, I always like to tell people we were comparing apples to crab apples.

So, it was kind of the same, but not really.

Um, and that assessment did show that, at least in Placer County, about 11% drop, uh, in mastery in the area of math.

Hmm.

Steve, you're the superintendent of Visions in Education Charter School, and you serve, uh, thousands of kids, across, uh, a fairly large geography.

Your experience is a little bit different because you've already been dealing with technology.

Tell us about how this experience impacted, or didn't impact, your kids.

Well, Visions is definitely a... a... a unique setting.

Uh, we are a charter school.

We serve about 7,000 students in nine counties.

Uh, we're authorized by the San Juan Unified School District here, in Sacramento County.

Uh, we... we do serve the eight contiguous counties around us.

Uh, and so, what- we are what we call a "non-classroom-based" charter school.

Um, so, we don't have physical buildings, or schools, or classrooms.

Uh, so, our teachers will actually meet their students in their homes.

Uh, we'll meet 'em at a Starbucks, at a library, uh, at parks.

Um, so, we're a little- We were better off, uh, because we didn't have that classroom, where we didn't have to, uh, solely switch to distanced learning, because a lot of that was already being done.

Uh, the students work, um, inde- on independent study, uh, where they... they'll meet their teacher one day a week, or one day in... in- out of 20 days, uh, will meet with them.

And then, for example, in our homeschool program, the... the parents are the primary instructors and the teachers, uh, support the parent to do that instruction.

Um, and so, the students that we had enrolled with us, we didn't see a lot of learning loss because they were already used to that distanced learning, uh, because that's what they came to us for, to experience.

Hmm.

Now, that's interesting.

Now, you also take care of, uh, or have part of your population are special needs kids.

Right?

How... how were... were the effects or... or... or the fact that most of your students, because they were already familiar with a out-of-classroom setting, not affected, were there any, uh, special considerations that came up with that population?

We actually have a large population of, uh, of students with, uh, with active IEPs.

Uh, we have about a 17 percent- Uh, IEP?

IEP, what is that?

Individualized Education Program.

Uh, so, every student who is in special ed will have an individ... individualized, uh, education program, um, exactly, you know, to meet their goals and what- to address their needs.

Um, so, we have about 17% of our student enrollment is special ed, uh, special education, and... and require special services.

Uh, it... it's a... it's a high percentage, uh, especially for a charter school.

Uh, and so, again, being, um, being the structure that we are, independent study, they did receive the... the support not only in person, uh, but also through, uh, through other vendors and online resources and also in person, during that time as well.

Hmm.

Tiffany, I want to go back to you and... and talk a little bit more about what you found back in the classroom.

Uh, your... your children were used to, uh, bricks and mortar, just traditional education.

And I know fifth grade is a special time.

Not that there's not- uh, uh, that childhood isn't completely special, but it's a special and unique time.

How did you find the kids adapting when they moved back and forth, from that online setting back into the classroom?

Um, what surprised you, or did you notice about, um, how they showed up when... when they came back in the class?

Um, what- Well, what I realized is, um, you know, my class is like a big family.

And so, what happened was that- if you could imagine if you- when... when COVID hit, that was when your whole family was basically suddenly disrupted and you were no longer in the classroom anymore.

And it kind of rocked- You know, it rocked our world a little bit just because we were trying to figure out how to do this new- uh, how to do this new way of school.

And so, what I think, um, I've noticed the most, since we've been back, is that the kids are super resilient.

They are awesome.

They work hard.

They want to be back in school.

I think they have a greater appreciation for being back in school because they know what it was like to not be in school.

And, um, you know, there were really positive things that came out of that, uh, you know, brief time that we were on distanced learning.

The kids, their technology, uh, literacy is through the roof.

They have really developed, um, uh, an ability to learn wherever they're at.

And what I did love was the... the, uh, fluidness of going- When we- So, we went back to school.

First, we were full distanced, then we were a hybrid- half school in day.

And then, um, and then... then I'd have- I had, like, 20 kids, um, in-person, ten kids online, and we just- I had- did everything all at the same time.

It was- And, um, what was nice was that if there was a kid who was sick, they could stay home and they could still be taught and still get their learning.

And, um, I just think that the... the- What I noticed is that the kids did need more help in the area of social emotional learning.

That- I noticed that what they struggled with the most was learning how to be together again.

[Chuckles] Um- Tell us more about that.

What- How... how so?

Well, I think that they got used to being in front of a computer.

I mean, it was just a short amount of time, but it was long enough that, when they were back in person, that, then, they, um, they needed to develop that trust again in their classmates, that trust in their teacher, because we know that students who trust their teacher trust their school, their classmates, their environment, that they're going to be more willing to take risks and to make mistakes.

And that's when the real learning happens.

And so, knowing that we needed to build that community, that, uh- At least in our school district, we have really put a strong focus on that social emotional learning and helping to develop those relationships, those strong relationships with our students, so that they feel that they are a integral part of our classroom and that they're needed and that we want them to be here, because these kids spend more time with me, often, than they do with their own families at home.

Right.

Right.

Gayle, I want to come back to you on this.

You hear, uh, Tiffany's experience and you've spoken quite eloquently to the whole issue of, um, some of the... the mental health needs that are emerging.

Can you give us your perspective, looking over the entire county, as to what you and your colleagues are... are seeing and feeling that most needs to be responded to?

So, I think whenever I'm speaking to people about the trauma that we experienced in the last two and a half years, I always say that as a global society, we have experienced trauma.

And that trauma ranges from, you know, you may have lost a loved one to COVID, or may- somebody was very sick, impacted- uh, their health was impacted because of... of COVID.

You may have had loss of wages, you may have had lo- uh, you know, you may have been laid off from your work, uh, so, there was an... a... a negative income- um, economic impact to you.

Or, just your daily routine being upended, uh, in its- in of itself, is a traumatic experience.

So, if you think about globally, we as a global society have been traumatized for two, two and a half years because of this virus.

And that trauma is going to manifest itself in very different ways.

So, as Tiffany was talking about, when the kids were coming back, um, what teachers were telling me was that they were seeing children who had, uh, maybe elevated behaviors that they did not necessarily have before.

So, um, maybe they were a child that rarely got into trouble or rarely need to be redirected.

That has changed because it's almost as if they needed social skills to be taught to them again, as to how are they interacting?

I happened to Zoom in on a preschool and it only had 12 kids, or 12 four-year-olds, um, that were learning online.

And that was like herding cats for 30 minutes.

I mean, I was blown away.

So- But to think about, like, four-year-olds, who really don't have any experience, you know, coming to a classroom, sitting, you know, criss-cross applesauce, so that they can, you know, sit on a carpet and listen to a teacher and not, you know, speak out and... and some just basic social skills, um, all the way up to our teens.

Uh, we were seeing more concerns with mental health issues with our teens, uh, more self-destructive behavior, more self-destructive, uh, talk.

Um, and I think that we, um, always- we always focus on the kids.

And I think, as educators, it's our inclination to always focus on the kids.

As the leader of schools and public education in Placer County, I'm also worried about the staff, too, because I think the staff has been traumatized as well.

Um, and so, we are seeing, um, a high degree of teacher and staff burnout that I think concerns me as well.

Uh, we had a record number of resignations and retirements this past year, uh, people who left the profession before retirement age or individuals who decided to retire early, um, because of the level of stress and the demands that were put upon them.

So, even though COVID is being managed in our community, in our state, and our country right now, we're going to have aftereffects in the area of socialization, um, that Tiffany discussed, we're going to have aftereffects with mental health, um, for... for... for many years to come.

And so, we need to get a handle of that sooner rather than later.

Hmm.

Steve, the populations that you deal with, in terms of your... your student base, you had said that, um, because of the fact that people were used to- the... the children were used to dealing with, uh, a non-traditional, uh, setup, in terms of how it is that you deliver education, that they didn't experience some of the challenges that Gayle and Tiffany are... are talking about.

What do you think that- What learnings- 'Cause you've worked, um, in... in- on- both in Charter, but also in traditional public education as well.

What learnings do you think, uh, that you... that you and your colleagues have been able to experience that might be helpful, regardless of what setting kids are in, that the world is just going to have to adapt to in the future?

And maybe we, as a community, have not caught up to where it is that the kids are at this moment.

Definitely.

I...

I think just, uh, providing options for students.

Uh, where- Again, what we're finding- Over the last few years, we've seen that, you know, not all students learn in the traditional setting.

Uh, being in a classroom of 25, 30, 35 students, uh, just doesn't work for everyone.

And having- At the secondary level, having, you know, six or seven teachers, uh, you know, multiple teachers throughout the day, it doesn't work for all students.

Uh, and I think- So, you know, trying to provide flexibility, and trying to find what works for students, uh, and bringing 'em from where they're at, uh, uh, um, I...

I think, is key.

And that... that's where it gets to be challenging because, uh, you know, not all systems can do that.

Uh, you know, but, uh- You know, for example, um, in... in my previous jobs- Again, I...

I've been with, uh, with traditional, uh, K-12 systems and also county offices of education, uh, and now, with a charter school.

In my previous job, um, we educated all students who were expelled, uh, from their schools, and- for a... for a variety of reasons.

And what we did is we just put them in a classroom with ten to 15 other expelled students and expected them to succeed.

Uh, and then- So, when we went into... into the shutdown with COVID, we really thought we were going to lose these students, uh, academically.

And we actually found that they performed better, um... - Better?

- ...not having to be in the classroom.

- Really?

It was... it was interesting.

When... when I personally talked to the students, they would tell me that, you know, "I do better because I don't have to worry about the drama in the classroom.

I don't have to worry about the hard look across the... the... the lunch, uh, room.

Um, I can wake up when I want, I can do my work.

I can contact my teacher when I want.

I...

I can perform when I'm ready, not at 8:00, when I have to go to school and sit in this classroom, and worry about who's in the classroom with me, in all that drama.

Or, even walking to school, uh, looking over my back."

And so, we're... we're seeing that it's- uh, those... those individual, um, those individual approaches, the students, really help.

And even personally, uh, with my family, with my daughter, uh, we're seeing that as well, uh, where she was in a comprehensive high school.

She was failing several of her classes, uh, so we actually put her in a charter school.

Uh, and now, with a charter school, the... the nice thing about it is that one teacher has a caseload of 26 students.

In a traditional high school, 30 students per class; You have six or seven periods a day.

A teacher will have to see 150 to 180 students every single day.

It's hard to build those connections, uh, and... and those relationships.

When you're in a charter school, with 26 to one, those... those teachers can build individual relationships with the students and see what they need, provide them the services, um, to... to fill in those gaps.

Hmm.

It's interesting, Gayle, you know, there have always been conversations about, uh, the importance of public education and the importance of the mission that they serve in our society.

I'm curious, though, there are learnings that, you know, Tiffany spoke to, and you- uh, everybody on this, uh, uh, show has spoken to, that have come out.

'Cause there's been negative, but there has been positive.

What are the limitations, though, that we, as a society, have to deal with, in order to... to take- to address the challenges that have emerged at the end of the pandemic, but to take some of those learnings and put them into place?

Uh, uh, because it... it would seem that, sometimes, public education moves a bit slower than where society is at.

So, I think, you know, Steve, um, is a great example, with Visions in Education being an independent study, non-seat-based- I mean, a seat- a non-seat-based charter school, that there are children who do not thrive in a classroom of 20 to 30 children, and there are children who thrive in a much more unique educational setting.

And charter schools and independent study ch- schools have really, uh, come to surface in the last couple of years as a vehicle for families who may have a child, uh, who... who thrives in... in that type of environment.

And I would agree, I anecdotally would hear of families that said, "My child was having problems at school and, actually, this distanced learning has resolved those issues for him.

And now, he can focus much more of his time on his academics than what he was worrying about, what was happening before school, at recess, or in the lunch room."

So, you know, those- I think we have to really look at that.

Um, I think it's important, pre-COVID, there was only two ways in which you could educate children in California.

You could educate kids in public schools, uh, in a seat-based program, which means you have a child that's sitting in a classroom 180 days, uh, a year- and California public schools are funded on the average number of students that are sitting in a classroom 180 days a year- versus independent study, which is the type of program that Steve is running over at Visions, where you are- that children have a great deal of more flexibility.

So, as Steve mentioned, students can meet with their teacher one day a week, or they can meet with their teacher one day every 20 days.

And then, there's other socialization opportunities, and there's probably drop-in lab and tutoring opportunities for... for those students and families to get some maybe in... intensive instruction.

But those were the only two options in California.

In... in March of 2020, uh, with the executive order that was signed, um, was the first time that California public schools were allowed to do distanced learning, which means we were funded.

Um, it did not equate to the number of students that were, uh, in attendance on an average day.

It was- You were basically funded on your enrollment.

We were held harmless.

So, we weren't going to lose any money, um, and we were able, and we had to, uh, quickly adapt to an online, um, presence and online learning.

And before COVID, there were many school districts throughout the state of California that were lobbying for greater flexibility to do some sort of online learning.

California, um, has really fallen behind other states in the nation for their ability to do online learning.

Um, and that could have been something like in high school, where you had a child attend maybe two or three sections a day, but maybe wanted to take a college course, um, online, there- uh, in the afternoon.

There was no mechanism, no funding mechanism for that child to do that in California, by attending school in the morning and then taking online courses in the afternoon.

There was no mechanism.

You can't be dual enrolled in traditional public education and an independent study, uh, program at the same time, to achieve that.

So, um, I think that, um, that is something that California, I think, really needs to look, moving forward.

Um, the popularity of independent study programs are not going to go away.

Um, they've had a... a strong following for a couple of decades, and so, I don't see that waning.

But I do think that there are opportunities that are very positive instructional opportunities for school districts to figure out how they can do a more blended learning, rather than an all-or-nothing, you're either in the classroom 180 days or you're on independent study.

And California hasn't figured that out yet.

So, this executive order will expire at some point.

This is not in permanent law.

Oh, I- There's been so many executive orders, I can't keep track of them.

- OK. - Um, that one has expired, I believe.

That- - That one has expired.

- Because... - Well- Go ahead.

- ...that was distanced learning.

That was distanced learning, and that was March through- March 2020 through June of 2021.

Steve, correct me if I'm wrong.

Right, Tiffany?

- I believe you're correct on that.

And then, last year, which was August of 2021 through June of 2022, we were back to normal.

There was no- You had... you had to do independent study, or you had to be in class 180 days a year.

And... and so, well, then, Tiffany, what that brings me to is I could have sworn you said... said that if someone was sick- and we're in our final moments here- that potentially, they could still get instruction being at home.

Uh, do- Is that working at all?

- Yes.

- Are you doing that at all?

- Yeah!

So, um, during COVID, one of the really awesome things that came out, for example, was that, like, I created a YouTube channel and I had all of my math lessons that I pre-recorded.

So, I have 120 math lessons all recorded that teach an entire math lesson.

So, for those kids who didn't catch my live, um, uh, ad... administration of that lesson, then they could go back and watch that video at home.

So, if they stayed home, I did have an online learning system that they were able to log in to that, um, system.

They could see what I taught for the day.

They could watch the videos, um, that went along with the learning for the day.

So, that was something that was created during the time of COVID, but has been able to be carried on and through into the future.

And so, it's awesome.

And if- Or, if they don't understand, I have a lot of parents who watch the videos to know what to do, to watch, uh, to help their kids.

OK, so, that's... that's big news.

And I would say it's a mixed bag because great news for parents, I'm not sure, as a kid who loved not to have to do homework when I was home sick from school, don't know how good that is.

But folks, we're going to leave it there.

Um, best to all of you in, uh, your work in looking out and educating our kids.

Um, thank you all and best of luck to you.

Thank you.

- Thank you, Scott.

- All right.

And that's our show.

Thanks to our guests and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪ All episodes of Studio Sacramento, along with other KVIE programs, are available to watch online at KVIE.org/video.